I've revisited Episodes II through VI and survived

[aTOMiC2]

Okay. After re watching The Phantom Menace I felt obligated to revisit the rest of Star Wars and since I had President's Day off I had a wonderful opportunity. I will confess that I cheated a bit with Episode II. Whenever there was a scene that featured Padme and Anakin alone I found myself searching for the fast forward after only a few seconds. I guess you can probably draw a clear conclusion of my opinions from that. I found quite by accident <rueful smile> that Episode II is pretty entertaining so long as you skip over the parts that make you want to blow your brains out. I'm not quite sure what irritates me more. Anakin's constant whining or Padme's irrational attraction to a cry-baby teenager. Oh well. Obi-wan's running about is pretty cool. The dark moments with Anakin and the Sand People is still a bit chilling and effective. The clones/droid battle is pretty nifty and the end conflict with Count Dookoo is a crowd pleaser. (Knowing just how tough Obi-wan is, makes it hard to watch him be essentially scratched by Dookoo rendering him unable to fight or even stand until Yoda is finished saving his and Anakin's bacon.)
Episode III is clearly the best of the three new films. The opening sequence is classic Star Wars fun and I loved it. The rest of the film is dark, disturbing and genuinely heart-breaking. We know what is about to transpire but that doesn't really soften the blow. And yes. Vader's "Noooooooo...!" Is really goofy.
Episode IV is flawed but great. The difference in general feel between the new films and the classic is stark. A New Hope is just plain fun to watch and we've all talked about it so I'll move on.
Empire is still the most entertaining and of the highest calibur of the lot. A fantastic continuation of the story, litterally kicking it up a notch above the original. No remarkable issues with Episode V.
Return of the Jedi is a powerful film but suffers in a few spots. One obvious issue lies with Han Solo. Ford portrays him like a characature. Solo seems a little too goofy. Almost a comic foil. Not the Solo I prefer. In one scene he seems so thick headed it takes him nearly 60 seconds to realize what Leia had just told him about her relationship to Luke. I found out later, after watching the special features dvd, that Ford had wanted Solo killed off at the beginning of Jedi. I don't know if that was a motivation or that the director, Lawrence Kasdan, was inexperienced and ended up being a puppet to Lucas. Then there are the Ewoks. The concept might have been interesting on paper but the conflict between the Imperial Troops and the Angry Teddy Bears seemed forced and unbelievable. The climax dealing with Luke's temptation toward the Dark side of the force is great. All of the scenes with Luke, Vader and Emperor are terrific.
On average the Star Wars story, if examined in its entirety, is a masterpiece of science fiction. I can't imagine what life would have been like without it. Thanks to my dvd collection I don't have to find out.

[Usivius]

I find myself being almost in total agreement with everything you have said during your Star Wars (all 6 episodes) rant. (I mean that in a good way )

Except one:

(Knowing just how tough Obi-wan is, makes it hard to watch him be essentially scratched by Dookoo rendering him unable to fight or even stand until Yoda is finished saving his and Anakin's bacon.)

I am unsure if you mean it is tough to watch because Dookoo is so powerful and you like Obewan so much, or you thought it was a mistake.
I would agree with the former notion. Only because Dookoo is one tough SOB ... Sheesh! Even Yoda had a hard time with him!

There is one question I wish to put to the SW geeks out there (I am one of them): IN the scene where Windu and Sideous are duelling, I always thought Sideous knew Anikan had entered the room and 'faked' being put at Windu's mercy in order to puch Anikan over the edge. (I mean he could have done that electricity blast thing any time, right?)
For those who have read the book, is this true, or did he just plain get lucky?...

[Usivius]

Oh, and one more thing that REALLY bothers me with Ep. 3: the final duel between Obiwan and Anikan where Obiwan has made it to the side of the lava-river and Anikan is still standing on that hovering thing. Obiwan says that he can't win cause he's got the high ground.... WTF? What a load of crap that was... look at the scene... what kind of "high ground" is that. And can'd Anikan just move thehovering thing upriver a little then jump off away from Obiwan...
That was a load of crap to me....

[aTOMiC2]

Except one:

(Knowing just how tough Obi-wan is, makes it hard to watch him be essentially scratched by Dookoo rendering him unable to fight or even stand until Yoda is finished saving his and Anakin's bacon.)

What I meant specifically was that Obi-wan was given a nice wound along his arm and then his leg. He wasn't dismembered or skewered just wounded. I'm sure it hurt and I'm also sure Dookoo would have beaten him anyway but to just fall down writhing in pain, essentially taken out of the battle is a little unbelievable. After Yoda saves Obi-wan and Anakin, they both manage to gain their feet as Padme runs into the room.

Just bothered me is all.

As to your second question I believe that Palpatine knew full well that Anakin had entered the room and was allowing himself to appear to be defeated. All you had to do is watch what happend after Anakin hacked off Windu's arm. Palpatine lets him have it and screams "POWER! UNLIMITED POWER!" Anakin was being manipulated.

As to the point about Obi-wan and the high ground...
It could very well be that the droid Anakin was standing on was unable to ascend any farther. It may be that the script suggested this or the book. I don't know but there is probably a reason Anakin was restricted in this way. It could be that Anakin's rage and over confidence played a part in this scene as well. Considering the result it was a bad move on Anakin's part in any case.

[CovenantJr]

IN the scene where Windu and Sideous are duelling, I always thought Sideous knew Anikan had entered the room and 'faked' being put at Windu's mercy in order to puch Anikan over the edge. (I mean he could have done that electricity blast thing any time, right?)
For those who have read the book, is this true, or did he just plain get lucky?...

In the book, Sidious does actually seem to be losing to Windu, but he's aware of Anakin's arrival. It's the fact that Windu wants to kill Sidious, and thereby deprive Anakin of his means of saving Padme, that causes Anakin to attack Windu.

Personally, I prefer LFB's interpretation: that Sidious could have won, but made himself appear vulnerable in order to force Anakin to make the choice to defend him against the Jedi.

Oh, and one more thing that REALLY bothers me with Ep. 3: the final duel between Obiwan and Anikan where Obiwan has made it to the side of the lava-river and Anikan is still standing on that hovering thing. Obiwan says that he can't win cause he's got the high ground.... WTF? What a load of crap that was... look at the scene... what kind of "high ground" is that. And can'd Anikan just move thehovering thing upriver a little then jump off away from Obiwan...

The "high ground" comment doesn't appear in the book, so I can't offer any insight into that. The only explanation that comes to me is the one that's already been mentioned: the droid couldn't fly any higher, and if Anakin tried to jump for the cliff, he'd be open to Obi-Wan's attacks. It does seem stupid.

[Avatar]

Personally, I prefer LFB's interpretation: that Sidious could have won, but made himself appear vulnerable in order to force Anakin to make the choice to defend him against the Jedi.

Agreed.

--A

[Usivius]

I agree about Palpatine appearing to be loosing. It sems to fit his plans...

The "high ground" comment doesn't appear in the book, so I can't offer any insight into that. The only explanation that comes to me is the one that's already been mentioned: the droid couldn't fly any higher, and if Anakin tried to jump for the cliff, he'd be open to Obi-Wan's attacks. It does seem stupid.

My problem is VISUALLY in the movie, it is not really a 'cliff' but a kind of beach. Anikan could simply do a little jump off the droid thing, on to the edge then jump away diagonally to the side. Visually it just seemed to be a silly/stupid point.
Anikan's ego and anger are contributing factors to his bad judgement, but it just wasn't pulled off in a satifactory manner to me.

[dlbpharmd]

I agree about Palpatine appearing to be loosing. It sems to fit his plans...

The "high ground" comment doesn't appear in the book, so I can't offer any insight into that. The only explanation that comes to me is the one that's already been mentioned: the droid couldn't fly any higher, and if Anakin tried to jump for the cliff, he'd be open to Obi-Wan's attacks. It does seem stupid.

My problem is VISUALLY in the movie, it is not really a 'cliff' but a kind of beach. Anikan could simply do a little jump off the droid thing, on to the edge then jump away diagonally to the side. Visually it just seemed to be a silly/stupid point.
Anikan's ego and anger are contributing factors to his bad judgement, but it just wasn't pulled off in a satifactory manner to me.

My biggest problem with this scene is that with one stroke of his lightsaber Obi manages to cut off Anakin's arm and both legs.

[Usivius]

heh, I actually never really thought about it, but you are right. That is some pretty nasty swordplay. Wow....

[aTOMiC2]

My biggest problem with this scene is that with one stroke of his lightsaber Obi manages to cut off Anakin's arm and both legs.

I had no problem with it. Obi-wan is a bad dude. Don't mess with Obi-wan or believe anything he says for that matter. Heh.

[Usivius]

Yah, I agree that he proved himself to be a cool, 'bad dude'.
That scene where he jumps right in the middle of all those bad-guys to challenge that cyborg-villain ... super cool!

[CovenantJr]

I agree about Palpatine appearing to be loosing. It sems to fit his plans...

The "high ground" comment doesn't appear in the book, so I can't offer any insight into that. The only explanation that comes to me is the one that's already been mentioned: the droid couldn't fly any higher, and if Anakin tried to jump for the cliff, he'd be open to Obi-Wan's attacks. It does seem stupid.

My problem is VISUALLY in the movie, it is not really a 'cliff' but a kind of beach. Anikan could simply do a little jump off the droid thing, on to the edge then jump away diagonally to the side. Visually it just seemed to be a silly/stupid point.
Anikan's ego and anger are contributing factors to his bad judgement, but it just wasn't pulled off in a satifactory manner to me.

My biggest problem with this scene is that with one stroke of his lightsaber Obi manages to cut off Anakin's arm and both legs.

Yeah, that's true. Interesting maneouvre.

[matrixman]

I'm guessing it was a single maneouvre cuz Lucas didn't want the duel to turn into a King Arthur moment from Monty Python:

Obi-Wan: Stand down, brave knight! You have proven yourself worthy in battle!
Anakin: Why?
Obi-Wan: I've cut your arm off!
Anakin: No you haven't.
Obi-Wan: Look, you idiot! There, see?
Anakin: It's only a flesh wound.
(slash! Anakin's other arm goes)
Obi-Wan: Now stand down!
(Anakin hops around, kicks Obi-Wan)
Obi-Wan: Ow! Stop that!
(slash! Anakin's left leg goes)
Obi-Wan: Now will you stand down?
Anakin: That was nothing!
(slash! Anakin's other leg goes)
Obi-Wan: I'm tired of this, Anakin. I'm leaving now. Goodbye.
Anakin: Come back here and fight like a man, you coward! I'm not through with you!

Return of the Jedi is a powerful film but suffers in a few spots. One obvious issue lies with Han Solo. Ford portrays him like a characature. Solo seems a little too goofy. Almost a comic foil. Not the Solo I prefer. In one scene he seems so thick headed it takes him nearly 60 seconds to realize what Leia had just told him about her relationship to Luke. I found out later, after watching the special features dvd, that Ford had wanted Solo killed off at the beginning of Jedi. I don't know if that was a motivation or that the director, Lawrence Kasdan, was inexperienced and ended up being a puppet to Lucas.

Ford's Solo in Jedi was criticized by many (and rightfully so) for being lifeless. A lot of things went wrong with Jedi. I'd say that much of the film seems like a caricature, not just Solo. It was a sad departure from the mature characterizations in Empire Strikes Back. And by the way, it was Richard Marquand who directed Jedi.

All of the scenes with Luke, Vader and Emperor are terrific.

I agree, they redeemed the movie (mostly). Also, the battle between the Rebel and Imperial fleet remains an exciting thing to watch. And seeing the Falcon outrace the flames and blast out of the Death Star...that makes any SW fan's heart race. That kind of thing reminds me in a good way why the movie series is called "Star Wars."

[ur-monkey]

The 'higher ground' thing...

What makes it more feasible to me is that Obi-Wan & Anakin had sparred with each other lighstsaberwise for years. I like to think it was an issue between the two of them - evenly matched in practice duels until one of them had a bit of a terrain advantage, then it made the other struggle to get at them.

It's not so much that higher ground advantage was an absolute Jedi ticket to victory, I reckon - more that ther two knew each other's fighting techniques so well that it became an advantage purely relevent between the two of them. A sort of Anakin, dude, you know what happens when we take each other on in this kind of tactical setup. Don't try it, son!

[aTOMiC]

The 'higher ground' thing...

What makes it more feasible to me is that Obi-Wan & Anakin had sparred with each other lighstsaberwise for years. I like to think it was an issue between the two of them - evenly matched in practice duels until one of them had a bit of a terrain advantage, then it made the other struggle to get at them.

It's not so much that higher ground advantage was an absolute Jedi ticket to victory, I reckon - more that ther two knew each other's fighting techniques so well that it became an advantage purely relevent between the two of them. A sort of Anakin, dude, you know what happens when we take each other on in this kind of tactical setup. Don't try it, son!

Excellent point. I agree. Best defense of Lucas' approach I've heard.

[High Lord Tolkien]

I hated the Ewoks.
And I hated Binks.


But my 5 year old son and 8 year old daughter just watched Return and Phantom.


They laughed constantly at both.
They imitated them both (along with the other characters).

So......somebody had the right idea if they were looking to entertain younger kids.

[Zarathustra]

Having the "high ground" didn't seem to help Darth Maul against Obi-wan when he was clinging to that knob thing in the big hole, had no light saber, and Maul was standing over him with a light saber ready. You can't defend one scene without making the other look silly.

Actually, they're both silly. The prequels should have never happened. Or they should have been done by someone else.

[Cail]

Or they should have been one movie.

[matrixman]

Good point, Malik. It also always bothered me a little that all Darth Maul did was to stand there frozen while Obi-Wan had time to leap up and summon the lightsaber to his hand. I guess the intent was to show how fast Obi-Wan moved and how surprised Maul was, but the way it looks on screen, it just makes Maul look stupid. What happened to those lightning Jedi/Sith reflexes?

[Montresor]

The prequels should have never happened. Or they should have been done by someone else.

Absolutely 100% agree.