Writing a novel for dummies

[High Lord Tolkien]

Question.
Say a person has had a few fictional story ideas that have been slowly percolating in his mind for several years that have stood the test of time.
Meaning, after a few years they have matured and aren't some spur of the moment silliness.

Say this person has tried a few times to get his ideas down on paper and although he can get the outline down he fails in the details.
He lacks the magic needed to express his thoughts fully.

Are there any services out there where you can submit what you have and have someone rework it?
A shadow writer or something?
Anyone have any luck with that? Or is it cheating?
Celebrities and politicians do it.

[Vraith]

I have seen such services scattered around.
But, much like the vanity publishing/presses, you have to pay for everything, and many read like scams.
From the reverse angle:
Somewhere [hell, it might have been craigslist] I saw a bunch of ads like:
"Wanted: someone to write my biography [or family history, or work with me on Epic SF series]"...even considered applying to write, earn a few extra bucks...till I saw what they were willing to pay.

[Zarathustra]

[Post deleted. I offered writing advice, but that's not what you're looking for.]

[Vraith]

Crap...Z deleted his post...and just when I was mostly agreeing with him. Ah well.
/delete.

[Avatar]

Cheating.

--A

[aTOMiC]

I would be a person that fits the description of someone with ideas but lacking ability/training/education/experience enough to get my ideas developed into actual written words.
I've been curious about the notion of finding a ghost writer to bring my ideas to life. What services I've found have been far too expensive for me to use so I'm left with really only one option. Writing the stuff myself with whatever skills I posses.
I have to confess that it's not going very well so the ghost writer idea still floats around in the back of my mind.

As to whether it's cheating or not I don't really have an opinion one way or another.
At the end of the day the "idea" is mine and every author gets help of one sort or another so...

[Linna Heartbooger]

My bro-in-law, and English major, is a tutor... and one time he was helping this older fellow write his biography.

Different situation, but maybe a compromise would be hiring a (competent!) local tutor for a few hours a week... maybe that person could help make things take shape, ask good questions about what should be happening in the story, or just plain write some of it.

I don't see much point in thinking about "whether it's 'cheating' or not"...I guess it depends on if ones point is saying "I did this and it was entirely me" (never completely true) or the satisfaction of producing something.
I think working with other people can make us capable of much more than we are alone. (now I think I just need to convince myself to practice what I preach!)

[aliantha]

Yeah, Linna, but writing fiction -- that's such a personal thing. It's not like writing a biography where you're largely dealing in facts. Well, someone else's facts, which a good historian/ghost writer would take pains to substantiate. (I have a friend who has a Ph.D. in history who does this very thing. She spends a *lot* of time at the Library of Congress....)

Have you guys tried reading any "how to write fiction" books? There's one available on the NaNo site called, IIRC, No Plot? No Problem! It's supposed to be pretty good. And Writer's Digest Books sells a boatload of stuff that will help you with plotting, character development, and all that stuff. Heck, Writer's Digest magazine has how-to-write articles every month.

I just think I'd explore every avenue to writing it yourself before you spend big dollars hiring some hack to do it for you. Nobody's going to do your ideas justice the way you can yourself. And if you want proof of that, just read the Gormenghast novels. The last one, which his wife ghostwrote, is a piece of crap.

[Savor Dam]

Nobody's going to do your ideas justice the way you can yourself. And if you want proof of that, just read the Gormenghast novels. The last one, which his wife ghostwrote, is a piece of crap.

While I suppose I am about to say is disrespectful to Ginny Heinlein, for whom I do have great respect, what ali wrote might explain why Robert Heinlein's later writings just did not measure up to the standard of his earlier works. I do not know for sure to what extent Ginny wrote or influenced RAH's books in his final years, but...well, read Grumbles From the Grave and then tell me that her correspondence style differs appreciably from his. Would this similarity carry over into her possible narrative style if she were ghosting his books?

[Avatar]

Thank gods I don't try and write novels. I can't imagine reading a book on how to write, and then trying to put it into practise.

--A

[DukkhaWaynhim]

I have found that I am usually pretty good at coming up with ideas/scenes in my head, and can outline and explain rather well (a significant part of my day-job is technical writing). I also have mad editing skills, once something is already out on paper/screen. Getting that first draft out there to edit, however, is totally impossible for me. It isn't writers block -- I just have a total lack of desire to place what I know to be draft material out there. I *know* it is a vital step in the writing process, but for me to do this makes as much sense as trying to bake half a cake.

dw

[aliantha]

You guys are wigging me out. I've been writing fiction since I was in second grade. I can't imagine *not* being able to make up a story and then put it on paper...

[High Lord Tolkien]

You guys are wigging me out. I've been writing fiction since I was in second grade. I can't imagine *not* being able to make up a story and then put it on paper...

Well hello Mrs. Fancy Pants.

[aliantha]

You guys are wigging me out. I've been writing fiction since I was in second grade. I can't imagine *not* being able to make up a story and then put it on paper...

Well hello Mrs. Fancy Pants.

Sorry, that came out snootier than I intended.

If it makes y'all feel any better, I can't draw a stick house with the sides parallel. And if you insisted that anybody can become an accountant, or a rocket scientist -- even me! -- I would be tempted to tell you exactly how unlikely that would be....

[Holsety]

Heh. I have to say, I'm a whole 2 paragraphs into my novel(la?) Library as Paradise; Inferno as Library and the thing I'm lacking most is motivation/dedication. I just don't see the point in actually seeing the story materialize on paper.

But I think it's going to see the light of day someday. Maybe.

[Avatar]

Yeah, I get a great idea, but fleshing it out into an actual story...I lose motivation and patience. I've started several novels...



--A

[High Lord Tolkien]

Well hello Mrs. Fancy Pants.

Sorry, that came out snootier than I intended.

No. I forgot the smilie myself, just teasing you.

[Avatar]

Say, are you a member of the Writers Circle here?

--A

[aTOMiC]

Yeah, I get a great idea, but fleshing it out into an actual story...I lose motivation and patience. I've started several novels...



--A

That's pretty much my problem too. The fact of the matter is I have difficulty with the basics. I'll begin writing and then review what I wrote and begin questioning whether it was a run on sentence or I've used the proper punctuation and suddenly I've lost my momentum.
I know SRD says to give yourself permission to write badly the first time through but I find it hard to follow that advice.
It seems kind of hopeless but I keep trying which is it's own reward I guess.

[DoctorGamgee]

HLT--

Just write the darned thing. Many people here, myself included would be happy to proofread/edit it for you. Just start. I put off writing my disserataion for years. Once I started, it only took 4 months to complete. The first chapter bled red ink. Each one got less until the final chapter which had only "Nice job."

The hard part is just starting. I suggest getting on it, as the end will be closer the sooner it is begun...