Message from God or Hallucination
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- Holsety
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Message from God or Hallucination
So, some of you may have noticed my increased activity recently. It is time to share a reason why this occurring.
Before you worry I get too much internet, consider that I have an active, fruitful life off the internet, and that I seem to be better at orienting myself - whether exploring a city, a zoo, a restaurant menu or a museum - than most others.
Now, I was recently writing a brief review on a page on the book "Bandits of the Marsh", a story of 108 chinese outlaws. What happened in the middle of writing? The textbox began shrinking. The captcha (letter and number combinations you insert to get past security) became a flag waving in the air, though it had been still earlier.
Then, as I prepared to submit, a message appeared in the text describing the book something along these lines.
"I'm the author. Why are you trying to communicate the message to me?"
WTF
Before you worry I get too much internet, consider that I have an active, fruitful life off the internet, and that I seem to be better at orienting myself - whether exploring a city, a zoo, a restaurant menu or a museum - than most others.
Now, I was recently writing a brief review on a page on the book "Bandits of the Marsh", a story of 108 chinese outlaws. What happened in the middle of writing? The textbox began shrinking. The captcha (letter and number combinations you insert to get past security) became a flag waving in the air, though it had been still earlier.
Then, as I prepared to submit, a message appeared in the text describing the book something along these lines.
"I'm the author. Why are you trying to communicate the message to me?"
WTF
- Holsety
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If you want to vote, riddle me this.so we get to vote?
hallucination.
Economists sometimes make a distinction between nominative and positive claims. As I remember it, nominative claims are factual - for instance, to claim that the US's GDP is a certain number is a nominative claim. A positive claim is to suggest change. A positive claim is to say that the US's GDP should rise or fall in order to benefit the economy, or that if it does so it will have some other sort of effect which will be good or bad for the economy, people, etc.
(NOTE that I believe that a truly intelligent economist would not say that, for example, a rise in production is a good thing, definitely, unless it happens ceteres paribus (SP?), aka with all other things held constant, or they are holding certain things constant. This condition is hard to find in the real world, since GDP affects and is affected by a host of other issues.).
With this in mind, are you voting nominatively or positively? Do you think I hallucinated, or do you want me to have hallucinated? I fall into the latter category. I DO NOT WANT any messages from "god" or the internet. Thankfully I have received only one, and that, my friends, is that.
Personally, I want and believe it to be a hallucination. But, I am not making any decisions until I have evidence. And I am not trusting any one person to provide me with trustworthy evidence.
Not for quite a long time (we are talking months if not years for most if not all of these). I am still hoping to consult a recent edition of DSM at some point to see what that has to say relative to what experts in mental health have to say. Moreover, I have done a fair amount of research into those I was taking, and their effects should have ended by this point.Avatar wrote:You taking anything psychoactive?
--A
Plus, there are a variety of other factors which would play into this.
- Zarathustra
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Are you serious? Or is this a joke?
If you're serious, this sounds like nothing more than a prank by the author, his website manager, or an Internet virus. Occam's Razor, dude. Don't jump to an infinite, supernatural answer when a finite, natural one will suffice.
No one hallucinates clear, distinct written messages. In fact, true hallucination--even on strong psychedelic drugs--is very rare.
Given the evidence here, I'd say it's more likely you suffer from narcissism than hallucination or direct communication from God.
Have you seen any holy shapes in your toast lately?
If you're serious, this sounds like nothing more than a prank by the author, his website manager, or an Internet virus. Occam's Razor, dude. Don't jump to an infinite, supernatural answer when a finite, natural one will suffice.
No one hallucinates clear, distinct written messages. In fact, true hallucination--even on strong psychedelic drugs--is very rare.
I have no idea how you could possibly know that you're better at exploring a menu than "most others." My menu reading skills, for instance, are wickedly-good. I'm like a menu ninja. I can pick out the appetizer section from the entree section in like, 2 seconds flat!Holsety wrote:I seem to be better at orienting myself - whether exploring a city, a zoo, a restaurant menu or a museum - than most others.
Given the evidence here, I'd say it's more likely you suffer from narcissism than hallucination or direct communication from God.
Have you seen any holy shapes in your toast lately?
Last edited by Zarathustra on Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Joe Biden … putting the Dem in dementia since (at least) 2020.
- Zarathustra
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- Linna Heartbooger
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Ah, Holsety... I have something I would like to ask. Does knowing as much as you know about Economics kind of suck? I mean, do you go in a store, and walk around seeing what messy economic systems contributed to the items you see on the shelf?
Btw, belated congrats on your degree. You've earned that, and nobody can take that away from you.
Z- hahah, you crack me up. Menu-reading skillz!
Btw, belated congrats on your degree. You've earned that, and nobody can take that away from you.
Z- hahah, you crack me up. Menu-reading skillz!
- Holsety
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EDIT: Looking for website.
EDIT2: The next time you have a message from god or hallucination, make sure you bookmark the goddamn URL.
GODDAMNIT
Consider that, for instance, to formulate the scientific method, and justify it, one must consider what methods of inquiry most often lead to the truth. Consider also that there may be times when the scientific method, with our current level of knowledge, fails to find the best answers to our problems.
(Have done enough research to be able to articulate a fairly good explanation as to why, if this is necessary.)
Note that this is a fairly limited selection of my life. In general, I have a pretty meh sense of direction without some kind of map of an area I have not been in before, am far better at menus than I am right now. And when it comes to maps used in natural areas I suck ballz.
I am also, recognizing my position right now as narcisstic, looking for people to puncture my brain and let some air out, though also hoping to puncture other brains in the process.
(METAPHOR. I love brains, would never hurt one.)
I believe that, to paraphrase one of my teachers, economists - the best ones - were a product of their times, and made suggestions appropriate to those times. For instance, I think that if one examines Keynes's influence in Britain during their brief recession, one comes to the conclusion that Keynes's thoughts helped to serve Britain well. One can criticize his application to the American depression by saying that Roosy and co. did not do a particularly superb job in their attempt to understand him.
I appreciate the General Theory, but it has some important and unresolved contradictions. For example, at one point Keynes seems to be saying the economy can, as a result of "laissez faire" policies, be misdirected. In the conclusion, he seems to indicate that the economy cannot be misdirected, and that it is only the amount that needs fixing (thus, make moves to encourage near full employment so that labor is used sufficiently). Problems? Probably poor editing, but how can one expect an editor to follow an economist whose complexity ranks alongside Ricardo's? (IMO) I mean, seriously, it's Keynes's fault too if the General Theory doesn't make much sense.
Probably the single most dismaying economist - though I am sure he is quite bright, far smarter than me, most of the time - is Samuelson, simply on the basis of his attempt to summarize and deal with the Cambridge Capital Controversy, an argument primarily in the theoretical realm. In my view, it essentially destroyed some of the principal theories of economics taught in classes today, though it diid not destroy their ability to be applied fairly effectively to modern day scenarios. Samuelson, in his attempt to summarize one of the key thinkers, essentially showed utter incompetence with some very basic terms. Now, I am pretty sure it was not intentional when he did this, though if it was he is very devious, very calculating and very, very dangerous to read.
EDIT2: The next time you have a message from god or hallucination, make sure you bookmark the goddamn URL.
GODDAMNIT
The rationality of jumping to the simple is itself subject to rational exploration. Don't you consider yourself a man favoring science more than religion? Do the laws of science result from simple observation, or a complex condensation of millions of experiences from millions of people?Zarathustra wrote:Occam's Razor, dude. Don't jump to an infinite, supernatural answer when a finite, natural one will suffice.
Consider that, for instance, to formulate the scientific method, and justify it, one must consider what methods of inquiry most often lead to the truth. Consider also that there may be times when the scientific method, with our current level of knowledge, fails to find the best answers to our problems.
(Have done enough research to be able to articulate a fairly good explanation as to why, if this is necessary.)
Holsety wrote:I seem to be better at orienting myself - whether exploring a city, a zoo, a restaurant menu or a museum - than most others.
I have never been to the bronx before, at least on my own in an attempt to navigate the subways, yet ultimately discarded the instructions given to me by my dad - who people are always praising for his knowledge of NYC - and found a better, shorter route. I have not been to the bronx zoo in years. But I was able to beat my friends to a place they named in the zoo, even though they had been there for hours prior. I am praised for always "knowing what I want" though it sounds like you can figure out restaurant menus better than I can, dagnabbit!!!I have no idea how you could possibly know that you're better at exploring a menu than "most others." My menu reading skills, for instance, are wickedly-good. I'm like a menu ninja. I can pick out the appetizer section from the entree section in like, 2 seconds flat!
Note that this is a fairly limited selection of my life. In general, I have a pretty meh sense of direction without some kind of map of an area I have not been in before, am far better at menus than I am right now. And when it comes to maps used in natural areas I suck ballz.
Eh, probably...but I am under the impression that everyone is as awesome as I am, does that sound like narcissm? Or insanity???Given the evidence here, I'd say it's more likely you suffer from narcissism than hallucination or direct communication from God.
I am also, recognizing my position right now as narcisstic, looking for people to puncture my brain and let some air out, though also hoping to puncture other brains in the process.
(METAPHOR. I love brains, would never hurt one.)
Eww, toast? I don't often eat breakfast...Have you seen any holy shapes in your toast lately?
I wish I knew it.....Just believe me, I wouldn't pretend I had a "hallucination."How about giving us the website so we can try to replicate your results?
Holsety: Strong on theory, mediocre at best at application. There are many others better at application.Ah, Holsety... I have something I would like to ask. Does knowing as much as you know about Economics kind of suck? I mean, do you go in a store, and walk around seeing what messy economic systems contributed to the items you see on the shelf?
I believe that, to paraphrase one of my teachers, economists - the best ones - were a product of their times, and made suggestions appropriate to those times. For instance, I think that if one examines Keynes's influence in Britain during their brief recession, one comes to the conclusion that Keynes's thoughts helped to serve Britain well. One can criticize his application to the American depression by saying that Roosy and co. did not do a particularly superb job in their attempt to understand him.
I appreciate the General Theory, but it has some important and unresolved contradictions. For example, at one point Keynes seems to be saying the economy can, as a result of "laissez faire" policies, be misdirected. In the conclusion, he seems to indicate that the economy cannot be misdirected, and that it is only the amount that needs fixing (thus, make moves to encourage near full employment so that labor is used sufficiently). Problems? Probably poor editing, but how can one expect an editor to follow an economist whose complexity ranks alongside Ricardo's? (IMO) I mean, seriously, it's Keynes's fault too if the General Theory doesn't make much sense.
Probably the single most dismaying economist - though I am sure he is quite bright, far smarter than me, most of the time - is Samuelson, simply on the basis of his attempt to summarize and deal with the Cambridge Capital Controversy, an argument primarily in the theoretical realm. In my view, it essentially destroyed some of the principal theories of economics taught in classes today, though it diid not destroy their ability to be applied fairly effectively to modern day scenarios. Samuelson, in his attempt to summarize one of the key thinkers, essentially showed utter incompetence with some very basic terms. Now, I am pretty sure it was not intentional when he did this, though if it was he is very devious, very calculating and very, very dangerous to read.
Three letters: DMT.Avatar wrote:*sniff* Pseudo is all I ever get. Sad
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- Linna Heartbooger
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One of the best cures for that disease, I think; one of the best.Holsety wrote:Eh, probably...but I am under the impression that everyone is as awesome as I am, does that sound like narcissm? Or insanity???Given the evidence here, I'd say it's more likely you suffer from narcissism than hallucination or direct communication from God.
I am also, recognizing my position right now as narcisstic, looking for people to puncture my brain and let some air out,...
Well, of course! Why stop trying to puncture brains? LOL.though also hoping to puncture other brains in the process.
It could happen, it could happen.
And it might be useful for aforementioned other brains, as well!
(They are not brains in jars, btw.)
(METAPHOR. I love brains, would never hurt one.)
Eh, it is so of many.Holsety wrote:Holsety: Strong on theory, mediocre at best at application. There are many others better at application.
Do you think that's an inherent limitation of you though, or a temporary limitation of youth?
Are you good at communicating with those who are good at application?
(Dunno; those might be tough Q's.)
Oh dear... well, I don't understand a lot of that, because I don't know the context and am unlikely to learn it, but...Holsety wrote:I believe that, to paraphrase one of my teachers, economists - the best ones - were a product of their times, and made suggestions appropriate to those times. For instance, I think that if one examines Keynes's influence in Britain during their brief recession, one comes to the conclusion that Keynes's thoughts helped to serve Britain well. One can criticize his application to the American depression by saying that Roosy and co. did not do a particularly superb job in their attempt to understand him.
I appreciate the General Theory, but it has some important and unresolved contradictions. For example, at one point Keynes seems to be saying the economy can, as a result of "laissez faire" policies, be misdirected. In the conclusion, he seems to indicate that the economy cannot be misdirected, and that it is only the amount that needs fixing (thus, make moves to encourage near full employment so that labor is used sufficiently). Problems? Probably poor editing, but how can one expect an editor to follow an economist whose complexity ranks alongside Ricardo's? (IMO) I mean, seriously, it's Keynes's fault too if the General Theory doesn't make much sense.
Probably the single most dismaying economist - though I am sure he is quite bright, far smarter than me, most of the time - is Samuelson, simply on the basis of his attempt to summarize and deal with the Cambridge Capital Controversy, an argument primarily in the theoretical realm. In my view, it essentially destroyed some of the principal theories of economics taught in classes today, though it diid not destroy their ability to be applied fairly effectively to modern day scenarios. Samuelson, in his attempt to summarize one of the key thinkers, essentially showed utter incompetence with some very basic terms. Now, I am pretty sure it was not intentional when he did this, though if it was he is very devious, very calculating and very, very dangerous to read.
...that last bit; that's enough to make a person afraid to use the strength / intelligence / skill he has... knowing that a strength may be used for the wrong end, and cause so much harm...
I've never done it either, but I've talked to a lot of people who have. ":Quick and brutal" would describe it pretty well, but if you're after fully immersive hallucination, it's either DMT or a hell of a lot of any other psychedelic. A guy called Charles Tart used to induce full-immersive trips, and study the effects....using an injection of LSD the equivalent of seven tabs.Avatar wrote:One of the few things I've never tried. I dunno...quick and brutal I've heard. I like the drawn out process of acid or 'shrooms myself.
--A
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- Fist and Faith
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Aaaaaanyway, Neale Donald Walsch says Conversations With God was written by God. As he was writing, with pen and paper, his hand started writing stuff on its own. So maybe you're about to write a huge, international sensation.
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon
- Linna Heartbooger
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See, I would read that and go "creeepy!" "I find this extremely disturbing!"Fist and Faith wrote:Aaaaaanyway, Neale Donald Walsch says Conversations With God was written by God. As he was writing, with pen and paper, his hand started writing stuff on its own. So maybe you're about to write a huge, international sensation.
But I bet your response was more like: "Ehh... okay, so this is part of this guy's schtick!"
"People without hope not only don't write novels, but what is more to the point, they don't read them.
They don't take long looks at anything, because they lack the courage.
The way to despair is to refuse to have any kind of experience, and the novel, of course, is a way to have experience."
-Flannery O'Connor
"In spite of much that militates against quietness there are people who still read books. They are the people who keep me going."
-Elisabeth Elliot, Preface, "A Chance to Die: The Life and Legacy of Amy Carmichael"
They don't take long looks at anything, because they lack the courage.
The way to despair is to refuse to have any kind of experience, and the novel, of course, is a way to have experience."
-Flannery O'Connor
"In spite of much that militates against quietness there are people who still read books. They are the people who keep me going."
-Elisabeth Elliot, Preface, "A Chance to Die: The Life and Legacy of Amy Carmichael"
- aliantha
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There's a term for what Walsch experienced. I think it's "automatic writing" or something like that. (Too lazy to google it right now. )
That said, I've heard of numerous writers who feel like they're channeling through their pens -- that they're not coming up with the words consciously, that they're coming from somewhere else. I've felt that on occasion myself, when I was much younger. Nowadays, I think I'm probably tapping into a subconscious wellspring in my own head. So Walsch's God may simply have been his own subconscious, saying what he wanted God to say.
Of course, rus might say that a demon got hold of him.
That said, I've heard of numerous writers who feel like they're channeling through their pens -- that they're not coming up with the words consciously, that they're coming from somewhere else. I've felt that on occasion myself, when I was much younger. Nowadays, I think I'm probably tapping into a subconscious wellspring in my own head. So Walsch's God may simply have been his own subconscious, saying what he wanted God to say.
Of course, rus might say that a demon got hold of him.
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- Vraith
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Yea, some "diviners" and "mediums" use [claim] automatic writing.aliantha wrote:There's a term for what Walsch experienced. I think it's "automatic writing" or something like that. (Too lazy to google it right now. )
That said, I've heard of numerous writers who feel like they're channeling through their pens -- that they're not coming up with the words consciously, that they're coming from somewhere else. I've felt that on occasion myself, when I was much younger. Nowadays, I think I'm probably tapping into a subconscious wellspring in my own head. So Walsch's God may simply have been his own subconscious, saying what he wanted God to say.
Of course, rus might say that a demon got hold of him.
But on the other: I think Carl Sandburg once said something like "When I was writing only God and I knew what it meant...now only God knows."
And quite regularly I read something I wrote and wonder where it came from...sometimes to the extent I'm not sure I actually DID write it. [most common on those all-to-rare occasions when it's something I think really good]...but that also is a divided weirdness...cuz I'm not FACTUALLY doubting...but kinda in a second-person emotional/experiential relation to the "I" that did it.
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler]
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
- aliantha
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I do that too. Especially around here, if somebody resurrects a thread from years ago. "Hey, I shoulda said something in response to that!...Oh look, I guess I did."
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Linna Heartlistener wrote:See, I would read that and go "creeepy!" "I find this extremely disturbing!"Fist and Faith wrote:Aaaaaanyway, Neale Donald Walsch says Conversations With God was written by God. As he was writing, with pen and paper, his hand started writing stuff on its own. So maybe you're about to write a huge, international sensation.
But I bet your response was more like: "Ehh... okay, so this is part of this guy's schtick!"
I assume schtick, rather than subconscious. I think the dialog, in the tradition of things like Richard Bach and Dan Millman, was just his way of telling his thoughts.aliantha wrote:There's a term for what Walsch experienced. I think it's "automatic writing" or something like that. (Too lazy to google it right now. )
That said, I've heard of numerous writers who feel like they're channeling through their pens -- that they're not coming up with the words consciously, that they're coming from somewhere else. I've felt that on occasion myself, when I was much younger. Nowadays, I think I'm probably tapping into a subconscious wellspring in my own head. So Walsch's God may simply have been his own subconscious, saying what he wanted God to say.
aliantha wrote:Of course, rus might say that a demon got hold of him.
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon