Synchronicity And Acausal Connectedness

Free discussion of anything human or divine ~ Philosophy, Religion and Spirituality

Moderators: Xar, Fist and Faith

User avatar
Obi-Wan Nihilo
Still Not Buying It
Posts: 5951
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:37 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Synchronicity And Acausal Connectedness

Post by Obi-Wan Nihilo »

Synchronicity and Acausal Connectedness
Scientific Speculation

For the most part the most interesting speculative models seem to have been given short shrift in the major popular works on synchronicity. David Peat touches on, but does not elaborate on, the flatland metaphor originally articulated in the classic work by Edwin Abbot. The core of this idea is essentially that a being who understood only a two dimensional reality would encounter points which would seem totally disconnected, much as columns appear in an architectural floor plan. But seen from a higher dimension these would be seen to be part of a coherent integrated structure. We can elaborate this idea in at least two or three different ways. First we might simply posit space as a higher dimensional manifold. If super string theory currently requires a twenty six dimensional model, then one could in some sense infer twenty three enfolded dimensions in which to embed hidden interconnectedness. This numerical example is far too literal and simple minded and is only meant to illustrate the concept. The next step would be to infer that dimensionality might somehow refer to the conceptual space of consciousness interpenetrating with spatial reality such that not only spatial dimensions, but also virtual dimensions of consciousness were somehow inter-enfolded. I am not sure exactly what this implies, but it is an interesting model for potential thought experiments.

The final extension of flatland is the one I find most interesting. It has frequently been stated that we live in three space dimensions plus time, or in a four dimensional space-time continuum. But this is not in fact the case. We understand time as having only one direction and therefore one sign. Thus, it is really only half of a dimension. If you wanted to say something to someone in flatland to make them realize that they in fact live in a larger and more interconnected reality you would say, "hey look up." "Up" would be in the direction of the next higher dimensionality. But we don't have to go a whole dimension higher, only half a dimension. If we actually live in a three and a half dimensional space time continuum, "up" to us would be into the future to meet that other half a dimension coming backward toward us. This suggests that the direction a higher level of interconnectedness might come toward us would appear to be from out of the future. This bears a startling similarity to many (but by no means all) synchronicity phenomena, which appear to us to be violations of our conventional view of temporal causality.

This idea becomes more rigorous in the form of work done by John Wheeler and Richard Feynman in the nineteen forties and recently extended into quantum mechanics by John Cramer. This work essentially points out that the most consistent interpretation of the mathematics underlying quantum mechanics is to interpret certain lines in the Feynman diagrams as illustrating virtual particles moving backward in time. As Cramer points out, in his transactional interpretation of quantum mechanics, one may essentially trade acausality for negative temporality. That is to say, if one is willing to accept virtual particles moving backward in time, one may avoid the conventional quantum paradoxes. Perhaps this may also be true of the paradox of synchronicity.
I stumbled across this paper while doing some research related to an insight I had the other day regarding synchronicity. Basically I realized that synchronicity is the most elemental association possible: two events, synchronous in time, are associated in a meaningful way. This association must derive from the most elemental interactivity of biological systems with the environment. Further, via natural selection this has been refined and reconfirmed through numberless generations of life almost impossible to contemplate. This was an experimental rather than rational process.

I see a parallel to the field of evolutionary programming. Some programs have been evolved to be more efficient than is possible to rationalize, and their operation has become a virtual black box of imponderables rather than a process that can be dissected into a sequence (rationalized). I think it is possible to visualize a similar process via the evolution of life. Certain associations are so refined, they convey meaning that defies rationality. In other words, synchronistic experiences convey meaningful information from transpersonal sources (and also, in so doing, hint at a hidden meta-structure of reality, but that is another issue). In regards to the above, one can surmise the potentiality that some of this information could entail signals from the future received in the present, or possibly from alternate realities or dimensions. I admit it is a bit mind-twisting, but it does provide an explanatory mechanism for certain aspects of precognition and insight that are otherwise quite thorny.
Last edited by Obi-Wan Nihilo on Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
User avatar
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton
Posts: 61791
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:17 am
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Post by Avatar »

But it's meaningful only from a certain perspective. :D

--A
User avatar
Hashi Lebwohl
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 19576
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:38 pm

Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

Every now and then you can find hints of this kind of thinking in books or movies. I think it was Mothman Prophecies (but I could be mistaken; it's been a while since I saw it) where one character describes supernatural beings as being no more intelligent or powerful than normal humans but they have a higher dimensional perspective than we do, so they can see or know things that seem, to us, to be supernatural or beyond explanation. Even Dr. Manhattan describes himself as being "a puppet who can see the strings", a clear indication that he has access to knowledge which we cannot have from our limited dimension.

Unfortunately, we are stuck in only 4 dimensions--or 3.5, according to the article, since we can only move forward through time--because of our mass. Physics tell us that all matter in motion has both particle-like and wave-like motion, but the more massive the object the smaller the wavelength. Our wave motion, even at rest, is too small to allow us access to higher dimensions.

Also, go track down a copy of Stand on Zanzibar by John Brunner and read it. In it, the supercomputer Shalmaneser refuses to analyze a situation because it believes that the data fed into it is impossible, given all that it currently knows. One of its programmers then tells it (paraphrasing here) "what I am telling you is true even though we don't understand why it is true". The computer already knows that human intelligence is limited and so it proceeds to analyze the situation. Similarly, supernatural phenomena might not normally have an explanation given all that we currently know; however, if we allow for the possibility of things happening in higher dimensions as the article suggests, then we can clearly see, like Shalmaneser, that things which defy logic can be true even though we don't know why they are true.

Great article, Ex.
The Tank is gone and now so am I.
User avatar
deer of the dawn
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 6758
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:48 pm
Location: Jos, Nigeria
Contact:

Post by deer of the dawn »

Certain associations are so refined, they convey meaning that defies rationality. In other words, synchronistic experiences convey meaningful information from transpersonal sources (and also, in so doing, hint at a hidden meta-structure of reality, but that is another issue).
You just can't get away from God. :D

I remember reading Scientific American a couple years ago- someone gave me a copy of one of their "special" issues on the origin of the universe. As I read I was struck by the fact that every article at some point referred to "design", "logic", even "intelligence" when referring to the origin of structures and forces of the universe. Any of those words necessarily implies a Mind. There just doesn't seem to be a way to steer inquiry irrevocably away from the existence of an intelligent creator/designer/intelligence. The cooler science gets, the closer they keep veering into those perilous waters. I love it.
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle. -Philo of Alexandria

ahhhh... if only all our creativity in wickedness could be fixed by "Corrupt a Wish." - Linna Heartlistener
User avatar
Vraith
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 10621
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:03 pm
Location: everywhere, all the time

Post by Vraith »

It's kinda synchronistic that you post this now, since the novel I am working on...will in fact probably finish by halloween...relates quite closely to the fact of enfolded dimensions [and why/what happens if/as some "unfolding" of them begins]. And has a parallel with your idea on life/evolution/those dimensions.
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler]
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
User avatar
Obi-Wan Nihilo
Still Not Buying It
Posts: 5951
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:37 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by Obi-Wan Nihilo »

Sounds like an interesting read.
Image
User avatar
Vraith
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 10621
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:03 pm
Location: everywhere, all the time

Post by Vraith »

Exnihilotto2 wrote:Sounds like an interesting read.
Only if I really know how to write, a thing I'm not at all certain is so.
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler]
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
User avatar
Obi-Wan Nihilo
Still Not Buying It
Posts: 5951
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:37 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by Obi-Wan Nihilo »

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:Every now and then you can find hints of this kind of thinking in books or movies. I think it was Mothman Prophecies (but I could be mistaken; it's been a while since I saw it) where one character describes supernatural beings as being no more intelligent or powerful than normal humans but they have a higher dimensional perspective than we do, so they can see or know things that seem, to us, to be supernatural or beyond explanation. Even Dr. Manhattan describes himself as being "a puppet who can see the strings", a clear indication that he has access to knowledge which we cannot have from our limited dimension.

Unfortunately, we are stuck in only 4 dimensions--or 3.5, according to the article, since we can only move forward through time--because of our mass. Physics tell us that all matter in motion has both particle-like and wave-like motion, but the more massive the object the smaller the wavelength. Our wave motion, even at rest, is too small to allow us access to higher dimensions.

Also, go track down a copy of Stand on Zanzibar by John Brunner and read it. In it, the supercomputer Shalmaneser refuses to analyze a situation because it believes that the data fed into it is impossible, given all that it currently knows. One of its programmers then tells it (paraphrasing here) "what I am telling you is true even though we don't understand why it is true". The computer already knows that human intelligence is limited and so it proceeds to analyze the situation. Similarly, supernatural phenomena might not normally have an explanation given all that we currently know; however, if we allow for the possibility of things happening in higher dimensions as the article suggests, then we can clearly see, like Shalmaneser, that things which defy logic can be true even though we don't know why they are true.

Great article, Ex.
Hashi, that is more or less the way I am looking at it, with the caveat that the mind itself has a role in the hidden structure of the universe. And that poses some interesting questions...
Image
User avatar
Obi-Wan Nihilo
Still Not Buying It
Posts: 5951
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:37 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by Obi-Wan Nihilo »

... such as this one.
deer of the dawn wrote:
Certain associations are so refined, they convey meaning that defies rationality. In other words, synchronistic experiences convey meaningful information from transpersonal sources (and also, in so doing, hint at a hidden meta-structure of reality, but that is another issue).
You just can't get away from God. :D

I remember reading Scientific American a couple years ago- someone gave me a copy of one of their "special" issues on the origin of the universe. As I read I was struck by the fact that every article at some point referred to "design", "logic", even "intelligence" when referring to the origin of structures and forces of the universe. Any of those words necessarily implies a Mind. There just doesn't seem to be a way to steer inquiry irrevocably away from the existence of an intelligent creator/designer/intelligence. The cooler science gets, the closer they keep veering into those perilous waters. I love it.
That reminds me of this quote:
Robert Jastrow wrote:For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountain of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.
Image
User avatar
Vraith
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 10621
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:03 pm
Location: everywhere, all the time

Post by Vraith »

HEH!!
Another synchronistic thing:
news.yahoo.com/strange-particles-may-travel-faster-light-breaking-laws-192010201.html

Now, it has to be verified...and there's always the matter of scale, and math conceptual necessities/implications vs. material possibility. But this kinda lives in the "missing link" territory.


But [earlier post] I have to disagree DotD.
"Transpersonal" doesn't require God. And while "design" "logic" and "intelligence" imply a mind, the nature of the universe doesn't necessarily, or even ordinarily/simplistically imply any of those. It only implies that we have a hard time reconciling that WE require it to feel safe/meaningful, in ways we feel we can understand. I've said before, in differnt ways when people say "the odds that we could just be" are 1 in a million, or billion, or trillion or even 1 in infinity, they ignore the fact that the times it COULD occur exceed the odds. Like saying the odds of winning a lottery are 1 in 10. If you actually HAVE 20/30/1000 different tickets, you win...not just once, but twice at least. [for the record, 1 in infinity is ridiculous...but even if it wasn't there really are, literally, many "smaller" and "larger" sizes of infinity.]
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler]
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
User avatar
Obi-Wan Nihilo
Still Not Buying It
Posts: 5951
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:37 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by Obi-Wan Nihilo »

Vraith, while that is strictly true, synchronicity does not rule out God (it is metaphysically neutral). It is likely that synchronicity is the phenomena most associated with God archetype, at least among those that perceive it. I think the quality of synchronicity that is most evocative of God is the apperception of synchronistic intentionality, in the form of synthetic a priori intuition. In general I regard it as a subjective question or 'finger pointing to the moon' rather than as a statement of fact.
Image
User avatar
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton
Posts: 61791
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:17 am
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Post by Avatar »

I think you all maybe missed my point. :D It's only synchronicity from a certain perspective too. It appears related from that perspective. Perhaps from a different one, there is no connection at all. :D

--A
User avatar
Obi-Wan Nihilo
Still Not Buying It
Posts: 5951
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:37 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by Obi-Wan Nihilo »

Avatar, as the experience of synchronicity is subjective to start out with, I'm not sure how that could be so.

But I do value your skeptical contribution to the thread.
Image
User avatar
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton
Posts: 61791
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:17 am
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Post by Avatar »

:LOLS:

Everything is in our heads. If we think it's connected, it might as well be. Synchronicity therefore does not imply some greater plan. :D


(Unless you really want it to of course.)


--A
User avatar
Vraith
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 10621
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:03 pm
Location: everywhere, all the time

Post by Vraith »

Exnihilotto2 wrote:Vraith, while that is strictly true, synchronicity does not rule out God (it is metaphysically neutral). It is likely that synchronicity is the phenomena most associated with God archetype, at least among those that perceive it. I think the quality of synchronicity that is most evocative of God is the apperception of synchronistic intentionality, in the form of synthetic a priori intuition. In general I regard it as a subjective question or 'finger pointing to the moon' rather than as a statement of fact.
In this particular case, I wasn't actually arguing that is excluded or included God, just that it was, as you say, neutral in itself...I was disputing the "you can't get away from god" point as an endpoint.

Av, I usually go with the flow on your perspective points...I tread that path myself most of the time...but if things are connected then they ARE connected. Perspective only matters when it matters. Sometimes things are actually different depending on where/how you see them...sometime things are only different because you can't see where/how they really are at all.
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler]
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
User avatar
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton
Posts: 61791
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:17 am
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Post by Avatar »

Nah, only perspective matters all the time. :D
Sometimes things are actually different depending on where/how you see them...sometime things are only different because you can't see where/how they really are at all.
Exactly. To you though, they still appear different, regardless of whether it's because they are, or because you think they are. So you act as though they were different.

Get a different perspective, and they might not be. But you will be. ;)

--A
User avatar
Obi-Wan Nihilo
Still Not Buying It
Posts: 5951
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:37 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by Obi-Wan Nihilo »

Vraith I didn't think that you were, but I didn't want the impression left that synchronicity isn't evocative of the God-archetype, as it is, at least to some people.
Image
User avatar
Obi-Wan Nihilo
Still Not Buying It
Posts: 5951
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:37 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by Obi-Wan Nihilo »

Avatar wrote:Nah, only perspective matters all the time. :D
Sometimes things are actually different depending on where/how you see them...sometime things are only different because you can't see where/how they really are at all.
Exactly. To you though, they still appear different, regardless of whether it's because they are, or because you think they are. So you act as though they were different.

Get a different perspective, and they might not be. But you will be. ;)

--A
Av, my disagreement lies in that you are positing some standpoint for evaluating the validity of synchronistic phenomenalism apart from the observer. And that is not consistent with the nature of the phenomenon. I will never stand somewhere other than my own shoes and question whether or not I am experiencing my own intuitions.
Image
User avatar
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton
Posts: 61791
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:17 am
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Post by Avatar »

And here I thought that that's what you were doing. :D

My standpoint is that synchronicity is only valid for the observer. :lol:

I thought you were suggesting some larger validity.

--A
User avatar
Hashi Lebwohl
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 19576
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:38 pm

Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

Avatar wrote:My standpoint is that synchronicity is only valid for the observer. :lol:
This works just like physics--various situations and observations are valid only relative to the observer.
The Tank is gone and now so am I.
Post Reply

Return to “The Close”