Ulysses

[Orlion]

So I started reading this legendary "monster" today, and after finishing the first two episodes, I'm not seeing anything that would warrant it as being difficult. My initial thoughts are that the use of stream of conscious is limited thus far to some bursts from Stephen Dedalus, the rest of the prose reads like a third person narrative.

So apparently, Stephen Dedalus was the main character in A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man. This, of course, would mean that readers of the time who read Joyce would have instantly recognized the character. This is my first Joyce book, so I have to make do with what I get. It has also been observed that Stephen Dedalus is a semi-autobiographical character. He's essentially Joyce's will projected into the novel. I favor this interpretation, since he is suitably of the Modernist writer mind set. He sees his current time as a period of transition, where he is a "servant of servers", where previous knowledge and ideas are passing out of mode and we are left with normal, drunk people.

This is further demonstrated by his tower being 'usurped' by the 'new generation' represented, in part, by Buck Mulligan. Aside from being very amusing, Buck Mulligan reminds me of Jack Hopkins and Benjamin Allen from the Pickwick Papers. All are medical students that the point of view can not quite take as credible... plus they are raging alcoholics. Buck is the worldview that society seems to be moving towards, a happily blasphemous, erudite, hedonism. Buck would be the one to say that we only live one life and then die, so might as well have what fun we have.

Stephen, being the wet blanket that he is, does not approve. Or rather, he finds himself in a 'lost generation.' He does not belong in the old Roman Catholic Order that he was raised in, nor does he have a place in Buck's nihilistic worldview. He also seems to not find fulfillment in his teaching job, and the children do not seem to view him with any respect.

It's also refreshing to read a Modernist novel that does not have World War I as the background catalyst that initiated the change in the world. Thus far, its a very Titans vs. Olympians approach, the old are simply being replaced by the new, and Stephen, being the Modernist that belongs in neither camp, is able to present this viewpoint to the reader.

[ussusimiel]

Excellent!

I need to be more careful with my words. a little p.s. and a ship is launched! We'd better be careful or we may find that the way home is longer than we thought

I won't intrude on your reading so far other than to say that Buck Mulligan is based on a friend of Joyce's called Oliver St. John Gogarty. Gogarty was always much more successful than Joyce (he qualified as a doctor and ended up in the US eventually). He always had money while Joyce was poor. He was poet but not a particularly good one, but he would have lived the life of an artist while Joyce (the true artist in his own eyes) had to scrape a living.

I'll do my best to keep you company on your new odyssey

u.

[Avatar]

Thank god I still have a queue. Otherwise I might have had to join you.

(Maybe I will later anyway. Damn you both. )

--A

[aliantha]

I know, right? I was just thinking that I've overscheduled November already, and here you guys are dangling a Ulysses reread in front of me.

[ussusimiel]

Thank god I still have a queue. Otherwise I might have had to join you.

The Lord doth protest too much, methinks (We're obviously going to be doing Shakespere next )

The statement 'an Av reading queue' is a contradiction in terms. At a book a day, for someone like you the concept of a queue is redundant. Which probably means you'll start Ulysses next week and be finished long before either of us gets free of 'Scylla and Charybdis' to sail among 'The Wandering Rocks'. It might slow you down a tad, but it won't greatly interfere with your momentum

ali, why not do as I'll be doing, reading the sections that appeal to me (or that I haven't read before ) and also taking a look at any parts that Orlion highlights for whatever reason. Since, Ulysses is more episodic than narrative this, IMO, is a very good way to engage with it.

u.

[aliantha]

Not a bad plan, u., but somebody will have to tell me what we're discussing, so I have time to read it. Orlion, I believe the scheduling ball is in your court.

Btw, u., I've been quite proud of myself for not going "neener neener neener" at you, even though I've already read the whole bloody thing and you haven't.

[Orlion]

I'll be reading it whenever. As a general guideline, to begin with, though I have finished through the third episode, I may re-read that again. I may just forge on ahead, though. Just keep in mind, I am reading a couple other books...so yeah...

In episode three (entitled Proteus or Pharos or Phaloney by some other peoples than Joyce, apparently) we get to our first balls-to-the-wall stream of conscious passage. Here, we learn that Stephen has small, womanly feet (specifically of the French variety;) and a bit of brooding issues. At this point, Stephen is concerned with, among other things, what it means to be. All this whilst walking on the beach. His concerns change like the form of the sea-god and he thinks back to his days as a student in Paris, the death of his mother, and drowning (at one point, he seems to consider Plebeus, yuk! yuk!).

If we take the Pharos 'title' seriously, we should expect a transition to our 'Ulysses' character shortly. We should also know that, if we are capable of capturing Stephen's train of thought, we should be able to perhaps tell the future or whatever. Could even be that this chapter is the illusive key that scholars keep babbling on about.

Could also be that with so little going around Stephen at this time, the only action to be had is in his mind, hence the stream of conscious. His thoughts are also suitably complex for one who's last name is borrowed from the Greek figure that built the labyrinth to house the Minotaur. I would also like to point out that Borges once wrote in one of his stories that a labyrinth, far from being a sort of defense or obfuscation of something could most likely be viewed as a web/trap. Therefore, spending too much time in Stephen's mind might entrap the unwitting reader that must analyze everything before moving on, much like how Odysseus was trapped on Calypso's island until someone came and broke him out.

So I may just continue onward.

[ussusimiel]

Btw, u., I've been quite proud of myself for not going "neener neener neener" at you, even though I've already read the whole bloody thing and you haven't.

Such churlish behaviour would have ill become you, dear Lady Anyway, I would have responded by claiming to have enjoyed the amount I had read the better

I was reading part of the second section where we're with Stephen in the classroom and I was struck by the seemingly effortless poetic nature of the prose:

His hand turned the page over. He leaned back and went on again having just remembered. Of him that walked the waves. Here also over these craven hearts his shadow lies and on the scoffer's heart and lips and on mine. It lies upon their eager faces who offered him a coin of the tribute. To Caesar what is Caesar's, to God what is God's. A long look from dark eyes, a riddling sentence to be woven and woven on the church's looms. Ay.

Knowing Joyce he is using Homeric rhythms for this chapter, but what struck me was the smoothness of the rhythm and the subtle rhymes of 'over', 'shadow' and 'woven' and the almost full rhyme of 'coin' and 'mine' (in an Irish ear anyway ).

I meant to say as well that if I can assist in any way with the Irish historical references just ask. There's a lot, especially in this chapter, that I take for granted but that may be unclear to others who are not Irish.

u.

[Avatar]

Which probably means you'll start Ulysses next week...

Well, I have 8 unread books ahead of me, once I finish the one I'm on. Given that I'm also currently playing a computer game quite a lot, I'm not doing one a day right now. I'm going to guess 3 weeks before I make it to Ulysses.

...Damn...see what you made me do there...I meant might make it to...

--A

[ussusimiel]

Well, I have 8 unread books ahead of me, once I finish the one I'm on. Given that I'm also currently playing a computer game quite a lot, I'm not doing one a day right now. I'm going to guess 3 weeks before I make it to Ulysses.

See what I mean, 8 books counts for less than a week's worth of reading in Av-world. That's not a queue, that's a momentary wait!

What game are you playing? Joyce wants to know what could be keeping you from his epic? There had better be a Hero in it

In episode three (entitled Proteus or Pharos or Phaloney by some other peoples than Joyce, apparently) we get to our first balls-to-the-wall stream of conscious passage.....

I've just read the third section, Proteus, for the first time ever I can see why I kept skipping it, it's a real dose of Stephen's intellectual allusionising. I'd say it's this kind of chapter that puts people off Ulysses because it comes across as too clever by half.

If we take the Pharos 'title' seriously, we should expect a transition to our 'Ulysses' character shortly. We should also know that, if we are capable of capturing Stephen's train of thought, we should be able to perhaps tell the future or whatever. Could even be that this chapter is the illusive key that scholars keep babbling on about.

So I may just continue onward.

That's a good strategy, I think. And we'll also probably refer back to this chapter as we get into the rest of the book.

u.

[Avatar]

What game are you playing? Joyce wants to know what could be keeping you from his epic? There had better be a Hero in it

Hahaha, not I'm afraid. Stupid time sucking space sim. X3: Terran Conflict.

--A

[ussusimiel]

What game are you playing? Joyce wants to know what could be keeping you from his epic? There had better be a Hero in it

Hahaha, not I'm afraid. Stupid time sucking space sim. X3: Terran Conflict

You are obviously involved in a sequel called Ulysses Unbound which features a hero called Avatar Bloom, who flutes pointlessly around in a spaceship, and which is all set in just one lifetime of a universe

u.

[Avatar]

--A

[Orlion]

Episode 4: Calypso. I am actually up to episode 6, but I decided to write this bit to let everyone know that I have not forgotten about poor ol' Ulysses.

As we all remember, being of the erudite class, Calypso is some sort of nymph that had imprisoned Odysseus on her island of hot, steamy sex for years. We'll also remember that Odysseus did not like it one bit

So Molly is introduced as our Calypso figure, the bed being her island. Aside from the whole bed deal, the other thing that would associate her with a 'nymph' (aside from that picture of nymphs) is her association with the cat, cats being feminine and, therefore, sexual symbols. Her first words to Bloom are actually fairly similar to the sound of the cat asking for food. Further sexual politics arrive when she hides a letter from a male under her pillow.

So our Odysseus figure is also introduced for the first time. His first quest? To buy a kidney for that sweet, sweet taste of urine for breakfast. On his journey, we have a much different character from Dedalus. His thoughts are more calculating, more practical, more business like than Stephen's pretentious musings. Upon attaining the kidney (which may also be cheaper than proper meat, another reason why he may prefer organs... he's a cheapskate!) he returns home, gets the mail and begins cooking breakfast. Molly asks him what a word means (I forget what it is, but Bloom tells her that it is essentially the Greek form of reincarnation). And in a humourous turn of events, his kidney gets brunt. He eats it anyway, and goes to the outhouse where he reads something from the paper that he has read before. The expulsion of some of his inner demons gives the reader an impression of what he thinks of the story and a chance to chuckle like a nine year old.

[ussusimiel]

Good man! I thought you'd taken my injunction to heart and were going to take 15 years to read the book

The word Molly asks Bloom about is 'metempsychosis', which means as you say, the transmigration or reincarnation of souls. The implication being that Bloom is an incarnation of Odysseus.

The kidney Bloom eats would be considered non-kosher, I think. Which adds to the complexity of his character.

The bodily details that Joyce included in Ulysses weren't to everyones' taste. Virginia Woolf found them particularly unseemly, but that didn't stop her from using some of Joyce's techniques in a book like Mrs. Dalloway.

u.

[Orlion]

I have not given up, just been innundated with various readings lately. I'll have to re-read The Lotus Eaters, but what I remember and was impressed with was how... lazy... the writing was. I thought it was brilliant how Joyce left some sentences unfinished.

[ussusimiel]

I have not given up, just been innundated with various readings lately. I'll have to re-read The Lotus Eaters, but what I remember and was impressed with was how... lazy... the writing was. I thought it was brilliant how Joyce left some sentences unfinished.

I think that this is a really good pace for reading Ulysses. It's a long time since I read 'The Lotus Eaters', now might be the time to have another look.

u.

[Avatar]

Gimme a month or two and I'll join in.

--A

[ussusimiel]

Reading 'The Lotus Eaters' at the moment. Finding out (from the new bloomsday book) things that I didn't know before. Rudolph Virag, Bloom's father was Hungarian. 'Virag' is the Hungarian for 'flower'. He Anglicised his name to 'Bloom' when he moved to Ireland and Bloom's pseudonym for his illicit pen friend is 'Henry Flower'. (That Joyce fellow is a card )

Also, Bloom's father committed suicide, hence the extra sorrow Bloom feels as he meditates on his father's death and

Spoiler

(I don't know if it's appeared in the ,story yet) he would also be reminded of his son, Rudy, who died young.

...*************************************************************************

[EDIT: to update the post]

Finished 'The Lotus Eaters'. It's an interesting chapter. I had a look at The Odyssey to try and find the passage about the Lotus Eaters, it turns out that it's only a very short part of 'The Cyclops' chapter (it gets half a paragraph in my Rieu edition). You could read The Odyssey and easily not recall the incident. This got me thinking about why Joyce chose to give it a whole chapter in Ulysses.

It obviously relates to Bloom himself (with all the flower references). Bloom is the hero of Ulysses, but it's as if he sleepwalks through much of it, it's like he's asleep or drugged to his heroic nature. Things happen to him, around him and behind his back, but it's as if he's not fully involved or in control the way a hero might usually be. The differences between the active, virile Odysseus and the passive, impotent Bloom are striking and we begin the long journey to finding out why Joyce has chosen this particular character as his hero, and just what it is about him that is heroic.

Some of the details in the chapter will recur as we go, the lemon soap, for example. I have been in that pharmacy and if you ever come to Dublin you can still buy lemon soap there

u.

[MsMary]

I will just chime in here to say it really helps to have read A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man prior to reading Ulysses, as it provides insight into the background and character of Stephen. It also helps to use a companion volume to Ulysses (I own two) as such volumes explain many of the references and so forth that Joyce mentions in the book. Though I admit that I read the book the first time without the companion volume. Have read it several times since then.

As a side comment, it was fun to visit Dublin and see markers on the sidewalk relating to events in Ulysses.