Entwives: Where are they

[Revan]

Where abouts are they. I think I may know the answer. They are in the Shire... In the FOTR, Sam says that Hob, or someone else saw a ash true moving. So I figure they must be in the shire. What do you think? Do any of you remember this moment?

[Blue_Spawn]

The Ents reproduce a-sexually.

[theDespiser]

in the books, pippin and merry tell Treebeard that the forest near the Shire, cant recall what it was called, had told them about their trip through the forest...as i recall, it tried to kill them...they thought that maybe they were the entwives...so...id be willing to bet that they were at one time the entwives



so...either in or on the edge of the shire...isnt that where Tom Bombadil found em?

[variol son]

I dunno. The old willow was definately a tree, and the Entwives weren't. Besides, surely Tom Bombadil, who rescued the Hobbits from the willow, would have said if it was an Entwife.

Sum sui generis
Vs

[Revan]

yeah, And Entwifes love Gardens remember... the Shire is very much a gaint one... and Sam talks about how a friend of his saw one.

[Variol Farseer]

yeah, And Entwifes love Gardens remember... the Shire is very much a gaint one... and Sam talks about how a friend of his saw one.

Actually, Sam talks about how a friend of his saw a giant, without going into details about what it was. Tolkien himself later wrote to a reader that he thought the Entwives had vanished for good. Their gardens were right on the main battleground of the War of the Last Alliance, just north of the Dead Marshes, and he doubted that any of them survived. A pity, but that is the way of things in Middle-earth. The Dominion of Men arises, and all else passes away.

[Revan]

Not necessarily... It's said they'll meet again. In the song... i think they do, and then pass into the west.

[Variol Farseer]

Not necessarily... It's said they'll meet again. In the song... i think they do, and then pass into the west.

Ah, but Treebeard himself, when he quoted that song, didn't have much hope that it would actually happen that way:

We believe that we may meet again in a time to come, and perhaps we shall find somewhere a land where we can live together and both be content. But it is foreboded that that will only be when we have both lost all that we now have. And it may well be that that time is drawing near at last. For if Sauron of old destroyed the gardens, the Enemy today seems likely to wither all the woods.

It's a pity, really, but it's also an inevitable consequence of the nature of Tolkien's story. Sometimes things go wrong that cannot possibly be set right in this world, and the best we can do is prevent the harm from growing worse. Then we have to defer our hopes to another world and another life, or give them up altogether.

[Avatar]

Although Variol Farseer makes a good point, and is probably completely correct, I must say that my interpretation was also always that the EntWives were to be found in the Shire.

Of course, we could assume that the EntWives also lost everything that they had, (Witness "Sharky's" devastation of the Shire) and imagine that Ents and Wives are happily reunited somewhere "off-stage", but as I said, VF is probably right.

--Avatar

[Variol Farseer]

Although Variol Farseer makes a good point, and is probably completely correct, I must say that my interpretation was also always that the EntWives were to be found in the Shire.

That's what I always wanted to believe, but Tolkien rarely deals in such pat, happy endings. (The Hobbit is a partial exception.) And it is an unfortunate point against your theory that the Hobbits had never heard of Ents or Entwives, and didn't seem inclined to believe such things could exist. When Sam talked about the giant his cousin saw up on the North Moors, Sandyman almost laughed him out of the tavern.

It would warm my heart if the Ents and the Entwives eventually found each other, even if they had to leave Middle-earth and vanish into the West. But Tolkien didn't think they ever would, and I have to admit, myself, that it didn't seem very likely.

[Avatar]

That's what I always wanted to believe, but Tolkien rarely deals in such pat, happy endings...Tolkien didn't think they ever would, and I have to admit, myself, that it didn't seem very likely.

I agree. You put it well; "that's what I always wanted to believe". But as you suggest, the "reality" is usually quite different from what we want.

Great posts.

--Avatar

[Gart]

From the book I took it that the Entwives weren't destroyed, but had gone away. And Middle-earth has a lot of places East and South where they could go, as well as the "Empty Lands" that were created when the fashion of the world was changed.
To me the song implied that there would be a reunion, but not until the end of days.