Ballet

[peter]

Is anyone else into ballet?

I've watched half a dozen or so [on tv] including Swan Lake, Alice In Wonderland, Romeo and Juliet and Snow White and I find it much easier to appreciate than opera. I am absolutely full of respect for the grace and controll that these guys exhibit and marvel at the sheer physical strength [both from the male and female dancers] that many of the moves must demand.

But there's a few things I don't understand. When a ballet like Swan Lake is written in the first instance are the actual steps/moves [or whatever they're called] laid down at the same time. If not and it is just a case of a given choreographer devising his/her own dancing routine - then how is the piece of music distinguished as a ballet at all. Is it just not then a piece of music wrapped around a story and upon which any set of steps can be fixed. Surely there must be more to it than that. Any ideas anyone?

I've seen Swan Lake performed live in Katherine the Great's personal Theatre in the Hermitage Museum in St Petersberg which was very special and would very much like to see more live performances. Alas I'm a bit 'down in the sticks' and so very little of this mature comes our way. Anyone else seen any good ballets they can recommend?

[Avatar]

Not a huge fan, (also prefer to opera though) although I've been to a few over the years.

Apart from Swan Lake, the ones that really stand out in my memory are The Nutcracker Suite and Stravinsky's The Firebird. (Especially that last one in fact.)

--A

[Menolly]

Apart from Swan Lake, the ones that really stand out in my memory are The Nutcracker Suite and Stravinsky's The Firebird. (Especially that last one in fact.)

The Nutcracker is the ubiquitous holiday performance here in the states. That said, the story is easy to follow and it is generally full of spectacular costumes and scenery, making it a favorite for children.

The Firebird is a personal favorite, both for the music and story. But then I like Stravinsky, and would recommend The Rite of Spring as well.

But there's a few things I don't understand. When a ballet like Swan Lake is written in the first instance are the actual steps/moves [or whatever they're called] laid down at the same time. If not and it is just a case of a given choreographer devising his/her own dancing routine - then how is the piece of music distinguished as a ballet at all. Is it just not then a piece of music wrapped around a story and upon which any set of steps can be fixed. Surely there must be more to it than that. Any ideas anyone?

Generally, a composer is commissioned to compose the score of a ballet based around the story to be told. The choreography, costumes, and scenery can change with the company performing the piece. However, generally the story remains the same, so even with different choreography the characters portrayed for each movement generally remains the same.

Many times though, the choreographer of the debut performance will have at least one movement which becomes affiliated with the ballet, and there is a means for recording the steps on paper. When I studied ballet, at 13 we did the three swans piece from Swan Lake for a recital, crossed arms and circular head movements in a line and all. I am sure my ballet teacher didn't teach us all the steps that the corps de ballet of a professional company would have done. But there were enough references to the known choreography for the audience to appreciate what we were doing.

[peter]

So there would appear to be a sort of loose acceptance of what form the steps of any ballet will take, allowing for the choreographers own interpretations to be made within that framework. Some of the moves however at given points in a well known ballet will have 'crystalised' to meet 'de rigueur' expectations of the audience. This somewhat fits in with what I had expected; I've seen Swan Lake three times in different productions and certainly the same or similar arrangements of steps/jumps have been employed at specific points in each.

Interesting that you prefer opera Av. In my experience with opera [not great I have to say] I find that it is only by repetition that it begins to work it's magic. I had an elderly friend who was a massive fan and I used to take him to performances as he did not drive. By virtue I saw Don Giovani three times over the course of a couple of years and at the final showing all of a sudden it started to 'gel'. The old boy explained to me that the only way to 'get opera' was to take it in small chunks and uterly familiarise yourself with it. Numerous philosophers have said that the highest level of aesthetic achievement of mankind is that of music and one felt that the minds highest level of functioning was at the level beyond words where the insights and effects of music were opperational. Certainly Moller [my old friend] said to 'get' Wagners Ring you had to take it in half hour chunks and utterly familiarise yourself with the one before preceeding to the next. When and only when you had done this were you ready to take the work in it's totallity - and then, and then you would hear something. Enoch Powell on Dessert Island Disks said you could listen to the Ring Cycle alone and nothing else for the rest of your life and still at the end it would be revealing more and more to you, such was the level of Wagners acheivement.

[aliantha]

I ushered for some of the student opera productions* when I was in college, so I got to see several shows for free. I've attended a few performances voluntarily since then. Opera's not my first choice -- I prefer symphonic music -- but I enjoy the staging and I can appreciate the technical aspects. It does help to know the story going in. And some companies now project the lyrics above the stage, which helps with comprehension.


*"Student production" may be somewhat of a misnomer here. At the time, Indiana U.'s music department was considered among the best in the country, and second only to Julliard in some estimations.

[Vraith]

Indiana U.'s

Huh...in Bloomington? [[does Indiana even have more than one campus? I assume it does...]] A good friend of mine got his masters from them in Theater. Design, not performance. Pretty sure the music school is still pretty highly rated.

Ballet, opera...both weird for me.
Incredibly boring....until suddenly, for a bit, they're not.

I think [though could be bad memory] that sometimes it's the original choreography that hangs on...but sometimes movements that become entrenched are a particular choreographer's definitive staging at a later time. [I think that's true of Swan Lake, for instance].

Ballet is a bit like most sports for me. I took classes for a couple years [along with jazz and modern] cuz the theater I was attached to had West Side and Chorus Line planned. Fun to do, quite enjoyed it. Not so much as spectator.

[Cagliostro]

It shure can be purdy, but after a while of ballet, I tend to get sleepy. Then again, the "majesty" of the Mona Lisa is lost on a baboon, so who am I to judge?
While often pretentious and silly, I usually prefer seeing a show of modern dance to ballet.

[aliantha]

Indiana U.'s

Huh...in Bloomington? [[does Indiana even have more than one campus? I assume it does...]] A good friend of mine got his masters from them in Theater. Design, not performance. Pretty sure the music school is still pretty highly rated.

Yup, the main campus in Bloomington. (And you are correct -- IU has a bunch of satellite campuses around the state.) Believe it or not, I went there intending to major in clarinet. That lasted less than a semester. Never even auditioned for the school. We didn't have to declare a major 'til sophomore year, and by then I had settled on journalism instead. Although I had a work-study job in the Record Library for a couple of years, and as I said, I ushered for a few operas at the MAC.

When was your friend there?

[Ananda]

I took some lessons at it and hated it if that counts?

[Vraith]

When was your friend there?

He graduated 2001-ish.

Cag, I saw Alvin Ailey's company in Boston in the mid-80's, few years before he died.
It was the best dance I've ever seen live...and way more exciting than any ballet I've seen.

[michaelm]

Yes and no. I worked in theater for quite a few years (first as an actor then technical management), and so I got to see a lot of very varied shows that I might never have seen.

In general I like to watch a good ballet production, but it's an art form that I find more difficult to appreciate without the whole production. There are a few ballet scores that stand well on their own, but I find that anything I have seen is difficult to listen to without the whole experience of a large orchestra and the ballet cast.

[Cagliostro]

I haven't studied it well enough to know who Alvin Ailey is, but I grew up with a great fondness for Gene Kelly and basically having fun while dancing instead of nailing perfection in dance. And anybody who has ever seen me dance would probably attest that I walk the walk of this statement (or dance the dance).

[aliantha]

Vraith -- that's way after my time. I got my BA in '79.

[michaelm]

I grew up with a great fondness for Gene Kelly

His Singing in the Rain routine is one of my favorite dance routines in any genre of dance ever!