Lord Fouls Bane Review

[Avatar]

So I found this in a link the Syl posted in the Gen Sci-Fi / Fantasy forum. It's a hell of a long review of LFB (with digressions into the rest of the series) and I really enjoyed it.

Agree with him or not, it's a damn good read. I commented, inviting him to post any future reviews of the rest of the series.

Lord Foul’s Bane, by Stephen R. Donaldson

I have a feeling that Lord Foul’s Bane may come as a surprise to many readers. It’s on the ‘fantasy’ shelf, and fantastical things do occur, but this isn’t meant to be how fantasy works. At least, not these days...

--A

[dlbpharmd]

It's a good read, although I called bullshit a few times.

Are Martin and SRD good friends? First I've heard of it.

[Avatar]

No idea. Turns out he used to visit the Watch.

--A

[Seareach]

It's a good read, although I called bullshit a few times.

Are Martin and SRD good friends? First I've heard of it.

Sorry. I know that's complete and utter bulls**t!

[ussusimiel]

It's a good read, although I called bullshit a few times.

I read it. It was long and comprehensive-ish on certain things. It was like he was trying as hard as he could to find fault with the book yet ending up intrigued by it and liking it.

I also called 'bulls**t' on a number of occasions, but since he was talking about LFB and had obviously read it closely (this was a review after a reread) I was willing to cut him a lot of slack

The two things that I found to be flat-out wrong were, that there was no plot (for me it is one of the best stories I can think of), and that there were no characters, other than Covenant, who were fully fleshed out (Ahem! Foamfollower, Mhoram, Atiaran, Trell, Lena, Bannor, Triock, Elena, Sunder, Hollian, Brinn, Pitchwife etc. etc. etc.).

Get him in here 'til we school him, I say!

u.

[I'm Murrin]

It's an LFB review. Most of those characters either weren't in it or were very much not fleshed out.

[ussusimiel]

Fair point, Murrin, and he has already read the rest of the series, so he knows that the characters are fully fleshed out later on (which he doesn't mention). It is true enough, LFB is light on plot, but the slow pace allows us to be immersed fully in the Land. The slow plot also places more emphasis on the action that does occur; highlighting its significance. For me one of the huge strengths of LFB (and the rest of the books in the 1st & 2nd Chronicles) is the complete integration of action into the story (there is almost no act, that I can think of, that is not significant).*

u.

* This is one of my biggest criticisms of the LCs, where lots of stuff happens that seems to have no more significance beyond moving the plot along.

[peter]

I haven't read the review yet and alas, have not the time today [or probably for the next few either] - but will do so asap.

U. makes the point however, that the reviewer seems to have regarded the book as short, or indeed entierly lacking in plot - but then he [U.] follows with an observation that 'it is one of the best stories I can think of'. Now, in the back of the book The Prague Cemetary by Umberto Eco, he has the following to say to help readers follow his book as it jumps back and forth between present and past.

It is the fatal imbalance between story and plot, or even worse as the Russian formalists used to say, betwen fabula and sjuzet.

He even goes so far as to present a table in the back outlining the story points as opposed to the plot points of each chapter - and I still don't understand the difference! Could it be that this is pertinant to what the reviewer was refering to as 'lack of plot' in what I [like U.] consider to be perhaps the best 'story' I have read in my life.

[Orlion]

It was long

As far as the "friendship between Martin and Donaldson", there is a relationship there. Martin spoke of it at one time, when asked if he would continue writing stories in Westeros after he finished aSoIaF. I'll have to "find it" (aka mention it but never follow through) but he was referring to his friend Donaldson who tried to write a couple series outside of his popular Covenant series and how nobody gave a damn about those series.

[wayfriend]

The two things that I found to be flat-out wrong were, that there was no plot (for me it is one of the best stories I can think of), and that there were no characters, other than Covenant, who were fully fleshed out (Ahem! Foamfollower, Mhoram, Atiaran, Trell, Lena, Bannor, Triock, Elena, Sunder, Hollian, Brinn, Pitchwife etc. etc. etc.).

These were precisely my criticisms.

Anyone who can think that Saltheart Foamfollower was not a fleshed-out character in LFB is just plain nuts.

And as for plot? The first book in a series is always over-burdened with exposition because it introduces the premise and the setting and the players. And it's job is to start plots, not resolve them. Still, a whole quest for the Staff of Law gets 'no plot'? Yeesh. You can't write a very long review containing very long explanations about what happens and then say that there is no plot.

[Avatar]

I thought he did a great job of showing that despite its apparent flaws, (and we know a lot of people don't like the books) it is a deeper and more complex series than superficial exposure might lead one to believe.

--A

[wayfriend]

I liked the reviewer's comments about the "no compromises" thing. (But, yes, then again, I would.) It's an observation that I hadn't seen before, and, I think, an important one.

[[Syl]]

Was wondering why the thread didn't generate very many comments, and I had to search to figure out what Z was referencing.

Anyway, it's a criticism—in the literary sense of the word—and a pretty thorough one. I enjoyed it. I disagree with the connotation more than the annotation of the authors points and think all of them are pretty much valid.

As for plot, eh kinda. On one hand, sure, it's going from point A to B to C. But then, so is The Road... or Heart of Darkness, Moby Dick, Huck Finn (kind of. that one's a bit more episodic), and so on.

It's kind of funny how he laments Donaldson's writing style on one hand but praises it (or at least his intent) on the other. You never see anyone speaking ill of McCarthy's word choices or his prose style, both of which can be as challenging as Donaldson's.

[Avatar]

I really should read "The Road."

--A

[Wosbald]

+JMJ+

Thought the review was "a damn good read", sho'nuff.

Obviously, I disagree with his implicit appraisal of the whole (10 volume) arc and pessimism toward SDR's place in the literary canon, though that's probably just my tittering and flushing fanboyishness speaking. Lawdy, I got the vapors!

[Orlion]

I decided to join in the conversation on his blog...because I could and to rub it in his face how much of a better reader I am then him! (full disclosure: not so much, he recommends Peake's Gormenghast Trilogy AND Little, Big by The One True Author! So he's ok in my book;))

+JMJ+

Thought the review was "a damn good read", sho'nuff.

Obviously, I disagree with his implicit appraisal of the whole (10 volume) arc and pessimism toward SDR's place in the literary canon, though that's probably just my tittering and flushing fanboyishness speaking. Lawdy, I got the vapors!

The First Chronicles will probably be around for a while. The other two, not so much. That's just the way literary canon goes, any long series that is on it tend to be hanging on by a thread. People don't like to be told to read a bazillion books when they ask what classics they should read. It is also why I do not think Wheel of Time will survive the Test of Time.

[Avatar]

I want to read a bazillion books. 1 hardly seems worth the effort.

And anybody who enjoys Gormenghast clearly has something wrong with them...

--A

[Vraith]

And anybody who enjoys Gormenghast clearly has something wrong with them...

--A

I'm in the midst of...taking it very slow, which isn't my usual way---I usually inhale books in one giant breath if I can. I'm liking.
So clearly there is something wrong with you....

But you are well read and know I read a lot...so clearly there is something wrong with me...

[[[you've made your choice then?]]]

Not remotely! Because Avatar comes from South Africa, as everyone knows. And South Africa is entirely peopled with criminals. And criminals don't read. So clearly there is something wrong with you

[aliantha]

And anybody who enjoys Gormenghast clearly has something wrong with them...

--A

I'm in the midst of...taking it very slow, which isn't my usual way---I usually inhale books in one giant breath if I can. I'm liking.
So clearly there is something wrong with you....

But you are well read and know I read a lot...so clearly there is something wrong with me...

[[[you've made your choice then?]]]

Not remotely! Because Avatar comes from South Africa, as everyone knows. And South Africa is entirely peopled with criminals. And criminals don't read. So clearly there is something wrong with you

Inconceivable!

[Avatar]

Not remotely! Because Avatar comes from South Africa, as everyone knows. And South Africa is entirely peopled with criminals. And criminals don't read. So clearly there is something wrong with you

Uh, isn't that Australia you're thinking of?

Look, the first book nearly convinced me (I also had to take it slow), I had hope...the second book had moments that turned out to be unrealised. The third book...oh god...

--A