Vaping. Is it safe?

[High Lord Tolkien]

First of all, I have little idea about vaping at all but I just heard about how "bad" it is on the radio.
Why is it bad?
What's the deal with the concern about vaping?
All the cancer causing stuff was in tobacco right?
Tar and all that shit.
Vaping is just water vapor and nicotine right?
It's addicting, I get that part but so what?
So is caffeine.

[Skyweir]

Ive not vaped but we had Darth Revan visiting with us from the UK ... and he vaped. No biggy .. it I think was that step between smoking and quitting.

And if it helps in that effort ... as you say all the nasty stuff is taken out ... why not?

If on the radio they talked about how bad baling is ... what did they identify as the bad ... besides its potential addictiveness?

[High Lord Tolkien]

That was the strange thing, nothing was said other than the addiction part but it's being treated like it's radiation.

I got some time to google it a little more.
It doesn't seem to be conclusive either way.
There are trace chemicals that can be harmful but the final conclusion is usually that the worst thing about it is that it's addictive.

I've never smoked,
Cigarettes and the way it was/is deceptively marketed to people is evil but I'm not seeing an issue here with vaping.

[Avatar]

Another part of the issue is that cheaply made components can release toxic vapours when heated.

Also, according to my periodontist, it's very bad for the mouth and gums because of the dehydrating effect.

Bottom line, I think, is that it's not really good to inhale anything except air.

--A

[Skyweir]

Aye true that.

The only thing I inhale is pot. Ive never smoke tobaccy.. as a kid it was my job to go light my lazy good for nothing nasty ass parents fags So Id trot off to the kitchen and hold the fag over a stove top .. I learned that if I squeezed the butt I could draw enough flame to not have to use my lips .. They put me off smoking for life

Plus the smoked heavily .. and I hated going in the car with them cos of the smoke. And we were never allowed to open the windows. Now I loathe that smell ... but I do love the smell of a pipe and a good cigar.

[wayfriend]

Let me google this for you.

The Potential Hazards of Vaping

But don't be fooled into thinking that e-cigs are without risks or that you should now be able to vape to your heart's content. Or that they're plain healthy.

First of all, nicotine is a drug and a powerfully habit-forming one at that, and a 2013 study suggests that even inhaling the drug via either conventional cigarettes or e-cigs may contribute to heart disease.

Also there is evidence that e-cigs deliver some toxic stuff of their own such as formaldehyde (a known carcinogen), nitrosamines (linked to cancer) and lead (a neurotoxin). Though the toxicant levels of e-cigs may be "9-450 times lower than in cigarette smoke," as this study suggests, levels of formaldehyde and metals have been found to be comparable to or higher than those found in conventional cigarettes. Silicate particles, which are a cause of lung disease, have also been found in e-cigarette vapors.

The 'Second-Hand Smoke' Question

A number of e-cig enthusiasts I have spoken to believe that the ban on smoking cigarettes in public places should not apply to e-cigs. And some are acting on that belief. I've even seen a woman confidently doing her e-cig thing on the subway in New York. Another in a restaurant.

And why not? Electronic cigarettes don't burn and so there is no smoke. And no smoke means no second-hand smoke. And no second-hand smoke means no health worries for the non-e-cig public who happen to be in the vicinity. Sounds reasonable and what a boon for nicotine addicts. Relegated, lo all these years, to standing outside in the freezing cold or blistering heat to get their fix and unable to inhale while in flight, now e-cig users can reenter conventional society.

But is there really no second-hand "smoke"?

Don't be so sure. A small study by Wolfgang Schober of the Bavarian Health and Food Safety Authority and colleagues published in the International Journal of Hygiene and Environmental Health in December found that vaping worsened indoor air quality, specifically by increasing the concentration of nicotine, particulate matter, PAHs and aluminum - compounds that have been linked to lung and cardiovascular disease and cancer among other health effects.

The upshot? Probably won't be long before the nicotine-inhaling e-cig users of the world find themselves legislated back out into the cold to hang with their conventional nicotine-smoking addicts.

[High Lord Tolkien]

Thanks Wayfriend!

formaldehyde (a known carcinogen), nitrosamines (linked to cancer) and lead (a neurotoxin).

Where does that stuff even come from in the e-cig smoking process?
And why can't it me removed?


As I'm typing this I'm remembering of a great episode of the Orville where they find an Earth time capsule that has cigarettes in it. Bortis, an alien crew member who is invulnerable to most Earth maladies, doesn't have to worry about carcinogens but gets hooked on nicotine. It's pretty funny.

[wayfriend]

Do manufacturers intentionally put formaldehyde in e-cigs? No, they don't. But there's some fundamental chemistry happening that can generate formaldehyde. E-cigs often use propylene glycol or glycerol to help transport nicotine and flavors and to create the big vapor cloud. We've known for a long time that when we heat these so-called carrier fluids they can transform into formaldehyde.

The real question is, why don't they care?

[Vraith]

As I'm typing this I'm remembering of a great episode of the Orville where they find an Earth time capsule that has cigarettes in it. Bortis, an alien crew member who is invulnerable to most Earth maladies, doesn't have to worry about carcinogens but gets hooked on nicotine. It's pretty funny.

I quite like that show, and that was a really funny episode.

e-cigs COULD easily be made in such a way that they were minimally harmful to the user. [far less harmful than regular smokes, or even air pollution, not to mention booze, most household products, added sugar, a billion other things] and utterly harmless in the second-hand mode.

Probably wouldn't have any of the smells/flavors, though...that's some complex chemistry there. And I'm not at all certain that ordinary perfumes and those oil/diffuser things are completely safe. Safer than Glyphosate, of course, but not safe.

WF--I'm pretty sure the e-cig banning is well under way already...if I'm not mistaken, several states, including NY and CA regulate e-cigs exactly like regular ones.

[Skyweir]

I love that show .. cuz hilarious

Well go look at that .. wow you learn something new every day

[FindailsCrispyPancakes]

My dry weed vape's well safe etc., etc.

[Avatar]

Yeah, not sure if it is quite the same as the "vape juice" or whatever they call it.

I suppose the risk of poorly made components remains the same, but other dangers should not apply.

(For example, I don't experience excessive dryness from the dry herb vape, but I do from a "normal" one.)

--A

[Skyweir]

Meh I only tried vaping once and really didnt like it .. but on the balance of EVERYTHING that V covered off on .. smoking with filter and filter holder .. seems ok to me.

And yes there are tonnes of shit thatll kill ya or aint great or good for you .. I mean tonnes of stuff

[Vraith]

And yes there are tonnes of shit thatll kill ya or aint great or good for you .. I mean tonnes of stuff

And you're probably underestimating. In U.S. food, [food only, it's worse for other products] not even 1/3rd of chemicals have been tested at all. Of the third that have been "tested," only about 1% have actually had a legitimate study done [[all of those only AFTER lots of people already got sick or died, and other causes eliminated. Let me be very clear: they were recognized as "safe" UNTIL large numbers of people were sick or dead, NOT tested for safety FIRST. Simply declared "safe" until the sick and dead started to be counted]]

They were recognized as "safe," you say, someone must have tested...no.
The people who recognized them as safe, the people whose duty/job is to decide, ALL of them...literally 100% of them...have financial ties and obligations to the producers of the chemical/ingredient in question.

The number of these "safe" [but never actually examined] things is more than 10,000.
And that's just in food.

[Avatar]

Meh, I don't worry about stuff like that. You have to die of something.

--A

[Skyweir]

You do have to die of something and thats the point I thought V was making .. that EVEN the food they eat isnt necessarily ... SAFE.

At least we dont have to worry about that as most of our food we grow chemical free. I think the little joint I have at night and a little grog .. is a risk Im happy to take

As you said we gotta die of something and I love the chill vibe both provide .. and nothing better than a night down the pub waxing lyrical, political and wisical .. If I had a dollar for every world crisis we inadvertently solved after a few .. Id be a very wealthy human plus who can live without lols??? Not me ..

[SoulBiter]

Meh, I don't worry about stuff like that. You have to die of something.

--A

It depends on whether it ends up worth it to you in the end. Smoking shortens most peoples lives by decades. But even for those that are impacted due to this, the last couple of decades can be years of shortness of breath, not being able to walk far without being short of breath or dizzy. Along with that, due to lack of Oxygen is memory loss. The lack of Oxygen starts eating at you other organs, causing a myriad of health issues.

As far as Vaping goes. I don't think the physical impact is written yet. But it will be eventually and I suspect it wont be a good story.

[Avatar]

Agreed.

eCIGARETTES LOADED WITH GERMS!

In a study, nicotine was not all that was found in the vapour of many electronic cigarettes... they also contained bacterial toxins and fungal elements...

...Christiani, director of the environmental and occupational medicine and epidemiology programme at Harvard's T.H. Chan School of Public Health, characterised the findings as "surprising". But when asked if the identified contaminants actually pose a danger to vapers, he suggested the jury is still out on that question.

Potentially, "they are toxic", Christiani said. That means that, over time, exposure to high amounts of such contaminants can prompt the onset of progressive lung illnesses such as emphysema, chronic bronchitis and asthma...

...But as a practical matter, Christiani noted that the contaminant levels his team found in e-cigarettes was actually "considerably lower" than levels "that have been shown to cause lung disease" in workplace environments where manufacturing chemicals abound.

What's more, such contaminants are also found in standard cigarettes, where levels "are [also] generally higher than what we measured here," he added.

The bottom line: "At this time, we do not have scientific evidence that the levels we see in these electronic cigarette products raise health concerns," Christiani concluded.

Still, he cautioned, "We do not know what the risk is with long-term usage, with increasing cumulative dose, and with the interaction between these contaminants and other potentially toxic agents we and others have found in electronic cigarette products, such as flavourants or industrial solvents."

--A

[Lazy Luke]

If I were an e-smoker I'd be concerned with the
the use of batteries vaporizing the e-juice.
Electricity isn't harmful, but chemicals
like lithium-cobalt
could
be.

[Skyweir]

True that.

SB thats smoking tobacco or pot or both?

Well yeah inhaling smoke cant do you any good. Inhaling pollutants cant do you any good either, carbon monoxide, nitrogen dioxide, sulphur dioxide etc.

I dont disagree.

There are few benefits to inhaling smoke period .. but there are some benefits to pot that are not available in tobacco or pollution et al.

Then theres alcohol which is another poison .. and apparently a lot of food you eat .. and crossing the road without looking both ways, anger is another killer, stress does terrible things to a human body, many many chemicals that we live with and bring into our homes and expose to our bodies are also poisons.

In fact living is fraught with risks. As a manager SB, you would be accustomed to risk assessments, weighing up the probability and likelihood of identified consequences along the severity spectrum and determine acceptable and reasonable risk.

Human life ... at least a conscious and informed life .. is similar. Yet we .. humans rarely employ such rationalisation to our personal actions. Maybe to a simple level we do.

My chain smoking tobacco addicted step father died a horrible death .. inoperable lung cancer and multiple secondary tumours. In the grand scheme of things it killed him quickly but it took just over 60 years but the last 10 were the worst. So you are absolutely right .. its impact is significantly detrimental on human health.