Matrixman wrote:Yeah, I'm serious about my music listening (whether classical or any other kind), but I really don't know a whole lotta classical works. Enough to get me into trouble, not enough to get me out.
I don't know how common it is for someone to not know all that many classical works, yet know a lot about Mahler. To me, it seems an odd place to start. But who knows, maybe it happens more often than I think.
Anyway, I do not know much about Mahler. I started in the Baroque, love period instruments, and all that. Therefore, I don't really know the big guns, like Bernstein and Karajan. I've wanted to tackle Mahler, but don't know how to choose between the many recordings.
Enter - Matrixman!
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon
I was lucky enough to hear Mahler's Fifth Symphony as played by the New York Philharmonic a couple of weeks back, and oddly enough, my CD of same piece of music is also played by the New York Philharmonic, under Bernstein rather than their current conductor. I am pleased by the recording, but some of the reviews at Amazon are rather negative.
I like the Fifth. I like it a lot, a whole lot, in fact. It is a passionate statement on death, grief, acceptance, and finally a return to life. There are also some great horn solos, and I have always been partial to brass.
(In case anyone was wondering, I was very tickled at the Philharmonic concert when the girl behind me started yelling "You're a badass! You're a badass!" at the top of her lungs when the horn soloist stood up to take his bow. He really was, too. )
Putting me on the spot, o devious one, Fist of the Faith?
The Fifth is the only Mahler symphony I've heard in concert as well. Duchess sums it up well. And much of his music has great horn parts. The thing with Mahler is that sometimes his music ends in darkness or perhaps resignation, rather than returning to light and life. I don't recall who said it, but there was an amusing quote about Mahler, Bruckner and Richard Strauss that went something like this: "Mahler searched for God, Bruckner found God, while Strauss did not bother beginning the search."
I am sooo not worthy to explain Mahler, but since Bugs Bunny isn't around...
I haven't listened to any Mahler for the past little while, as other music has been consuming my attention. However, Mahler's music is never too far from my mind. Let me gather my thoughts on such a complex man and such complex music...
I haven't listened to Mahler in concert, but I'd rank the Fifth, First and the unfinished Tenth as my favorites. The Fifth is among my favorites if only for the fourth movement, the Adagietto for strings and harp. The First is majestic in tone and the one movement of the Tenth that was written out fully almost as poignant as the Adagietto.
However, they are purely instrumental. In order to get a better sample, one has to pick up one of his choral symphonies. A good number of his symphonies have large chorus sections. The Eigth is subtitled the "Symphony of a Thousand" for its huge chorus and is an interesting work.
Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a good carpenter to build one.
Here's an excellent essay from the late Leonard Bernstein that sheds much light on what Mahler is all about:
Mahler was not only a great symphonist but one of the mightiest dramatic minds of the last hundred years. No one I know actually heard him conducting opera during his Golden Age at the Vienna State Opera; but many people I know have known people who did, and they are unanimous in agreeing that he delivered the finest and most dramatic Aidas, Fidelios, Figaros and Tannhausers.
Mahler the dramatist is at least equally striking in his own compositions. Every one of his symphonies behaves like an opera. I don't know any other composer who had so keen a sense of how to begin a movement (you can practically see the curtain going up), or how to end it, or how to deliver shock after shock, contrast after hyperbole after understatement, or who understood so brilliantly and effectively the dramatic possibilities of ambiguity. Perhaps this dramatic gift also has something to do with his Jewishness, with the Talmudic quality of his dualistic mind, his Rabbinical "Either-Or".
The term "Jewishness," of course, represents many things: it is a tradition, a faith, a school of moral philosophy, an official religion based on the laws of Moses, plus the Talmud plus the Kaballah, plus a certain outlook conditioned by the collective ghetto experience of millenia. Moreover, at the time of Mahler's birth in the Austro-Hungarian Empire of the 1860s, Jewishness also meant being subject to a number of quite specific laws and regulations (not at all from the Mosaic code), involving most aspects of daily life.
When Gustav was 7 years old (1867), certain civil liberties were at least granted to the Emperor's Jewish subjects; but anti-semitism, like any racial discrimination, can hardly be erased by mere legal fiat. And while Jews, particularly in the world metropolis of Vienna, became increasingly active in the Empire's social, cultural, financial and professional circles, the "taint", as it were, of being a Jew remained, especially where a government post was concerned -- to the degree that Gustav Mahler came to the point of denying his Jewish origins and converted to Catholicism for the sole purpose of getting the biggest job in the world of music: Director of the Vienna State Opera. And that what's more, he lied about the timing of his conversion when he filled out his application for the position. He was what you might call a premature Christian.
Gustav Mahler had an unyielding obssession with death throughout his creative life, an obssession without parallel in any other composer. The Ninth Symphony, for example, actually opens with the halting irregular beats of Mahler's own diseased heart. Can you think of any other composer who wrote, in every major work at some point or other, a Funeral March. Already in the First Symphony there is the mock Funeral March; in the Second the entire opening movement is entitled "Funeral March" - on the Death of a Hero, the opening movement of the Fifth is called "Funeral March" etc. And, in the Ninth, those doom-laden faltering heartbeats eventually reach shattering proportions.
What has this life-long obssession with death got to do with our understanding of Mahler's very personal genius--or for that matter, of his Jewishness? Just this, that it's very difficult to be a Jew. Judaism is the hardest of all religions because there are no ultimate rewards except on earth--no promises about the Hereafter, no guaranteed Kingdom of Heaven--only the conviction that God will love you if you do his works. Judaism is not primarily a consolation; it is a system not with ten but hundreds of commandments about how man should live with man. Therefore, the great attraction of Christianity to Mahler was the concept of resurrection of the soul--the promise of life hereafter.
In the excitement of discovering Christianity, there must have been some rejection of Jewishness early on, going all the way back to Mahler's childhood memory of singing in the Church choir and getting his first whiff of heaven. This is why for the rest of his life he kept re-invoking that childlike purity of spirit which was--to put it coarsely--his ticket to the afterlife. Sometimes this Christian yearning was expressed in massed choirs and huge orchestral forces; at other times it appeared in literally childlike form, like the singing of the children's choir in the Third Symphony or again in the Eighth, to say nothing of the two wonderful innocent songs "Urlicht" (Second Symphony) and "The Heavenly Life" (Fourth Symphony).
All these movements attest to an incredible simplicity at the core of Mahler's music. And in the end, in his final great works, Mahler's music becomes even more simple, more spare, less specifically Christian. We travel a long way from the early Wunderhorn (Magic Horn) songs to the greatest of his song cycles, Das Lied von der Erde (The Song of the Earth)--a symphony really, for two solo voices and orchestra, the last song of which is a profoundly introspective, utterly quiet, almost Zen-like contemplation of death.
For years this Zen-like aspect of Mahler's music was not understood by some of the world's greatest musicians. It seemed over-simplified, so bleak, so devoid of harmonic support. But actually this is the true essence of Mahler in his maturity. Not the overblown, over-harmonized chorale music, or the over-contrapuntal academic fugues, but this stunning quietude and sparseness.
This is the musical equivalent of what Zarathustra - Buddha - Bergson - Wagner - Nietzsche, called variously "the all", "the nothing", the "elan vital", the cosmic "Om". What has happened is that Mahler's music, at his greatest and most mature, has become a synthesis of his lifelong conflict between Judaism on the one hand and Christianity on the other. Which makes it clear why Mahler chose for these final song-texts ancient Chinese poetry which concerns itself with youth, beauty, wine, the brevity of life and the mystical embrace of death.
In these last pages of this extraordinary final song, "Der Abschied" (The Farewell), it is as if Mahler sadly witnesses the passing of his beloved C major world, unwilling to let go, repeating over and over an unresolved C major phrase on the words "ewig...ewig" ("forever...forever"). It is almost inevitable that his last farewell song is ushered in by that one invariable, a funeral march -- the one constant that stamped every one of his great works with the name Gustav Mahler.
- Adapted from Leonard Bernstein's television essay "The Little Drummer Boy".
Well, my first foray into Vespers. I'm not now, and never have been, much of a music fan. I tend to like music for the lyrical content, rather than the musical, and as a result, treat most music as poetry. It's usually words I listen for more than anything else.
If I never heard another bit of music in my life, I don't think it would bother me. This is in stark contrast to the GF, who is a music junky. However, that said, I do enjoy some classical stuff, the old stalwarts of course, and, funnily enough, Mahler.
The unfinished Tenth is my favourite, I think. And it may be interesting to note that it was a fantasy book, (or rather two) that first introduced me to him, and to that particular work. Greg Bears Songs of Earth and Power, which strangely, I've already mentioned in a post today.
I know far too little about the subject to engage in any kind of debate, but I found that essay very interesting. I think I'll take a look through this forum and see where else I have something to say. (Not that it'll be much. (For a change ) )
There's an interesting bit of trivia regarding Das Lied von der Erde. Because Beethoven, Schubert, and Bruckner all died with incomplete 10th symphonies, Mahler decided to stop writing them after his 9th. Das Lied von der Erde can be considered his "real" 10th, but he named it otherwise so he wouldn't die part-way through it. Then, he apparently said, "Oh, the heck with it," and began writing what he called his 10th Symphony. And he died before he finished it!
So MM, please list your favorite recordings of Mahler's symphonies. You've said beautiful things about many recordings in various threads, and I thought this would be a great way to gather them together.
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon
Avatar... I don't know what to say to you. My B.A. is in Music History, and it wouldn't bother you if you never heard a bit of music in your life?! Ah, that is as sad a tale in... um... eighteen words as any you might have told me. Holy cow, do you like sex? Chocolate?
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon
Sex, sure! But I could just as easily live without chocolate. The only time I'll eat it is if it's dark and bitter, and I have a good red wine to go with it. I never eat it just for the sake of it.
As you'll know if you read the thread on not liking classical music (although I do usually), it's down to the tone deafness. Music simply doesn't move me, unless the words are powerful.
Fist and Faith wrote:
So MM, please list your favorite recordings of Mahler's symphonies. You've said beautiful things about many recordings in various threads, and I thought this would be a great way to gather them together.
Well, thanks for the compliments, but my opinions on Mahler performances aren't the only ones that count around here. You're shutting out duchess and Damelon and perhaps other Mahler devotees: I want to hear their recommendations, too.
Actually, I have a question for those who are more familiar with Mahler than I am:
Next month the Ann Arbor Symphony Orchestra is performing something called Mahler's Resurrection Symphony (and something that will be the Michigan premiere of something called Impetuosity by someone named Botti). I'm not familiar with this piece of music, and was wondering if it might be a good thing to go hear?
"Resurrection" is the nickname of Mahler's 2nd Symphony. He stopped giving titles to his symphonies after the 2nd, because he felt people were reading far too much into the titles, rather than letting the music speak for itself. (But if you're keeping score, his First Symphony was named "Titan".)
In this case, "Resurrection" is a fitting title. The symphony's "story" is basically the death and funeral of the hero, his anguish in purgatory, and the final rise of his soul to Heaven. It's a musical struggle to get there.
I think I should let you know that the huge 1st Movement (around 25 minutes) might jangle the nerves: it's arguably the most emotionally jarring movement of all of Mahler's symphonies, as it alternates between tense, whisper quiet moments to sudden full orchestral blasts. It's not a peaceful death for our hero.
Three much shorter movements follow, and then the symphony concludes with another humongous movement (38 minutes or so)--the "Resurrection" finale with soprano and chorus.
Myself, I've only really listened to the whole symphony just once, and the 1st Movement by itself one other time. It's not the kind of music I can relax to everyday.
Matrixman wrote:Well, thanks for the compliments, but my opinions on Mahler performances aren't the only ones that count around here. You're shutting out duchess and Damelon and perhaps other Mahler devotees: I want to hear their recommendations, too.
True enough. I didn't mean to discourage anyone else, although I certainly didn't encourage others, did I. Sorry folks.
But MM, you've spoken most often and passionately about Mahler, and passion for any composer, genre, or form of art is - by a looooooooong shot - more important than anything else.
I remember Simon Rattle's recording of the 2nd got tons of attention. Great reviews and awards. A customer who knew lots about Mahler told me, "I used to think I knew what the 2nd sounded like. Then I heard Rattle, and realized I didn't. Now I do."
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon
Matrixman wrote:"Resurrection" is the nickname of Mahler's 2nd Symphony. He stopped giving titles to his symphonies after the 2nd, because he felt people were reading far too much into the titles, rather than letting the music speak for itself. (But if you're keeping score, his First Symphony was named "Titan".)
In this case, "Resurrection" is a fitting title. The symphony's "story" is basically the death and funeral of the hero, his anguish in purgatory, and the final rise of his soul to Heaven. It's a musical struggle to get there.
I think I should let you know that the huge 1st Movement (around 25 minutes) might jangle the nerves: it's arguably the most emotionally jarring movement of all of Mahler's symphonies, as it alternates between tense, whisper quiet moments to sudden full orchestral blasts. It's not a peaceful death for our hero.
Three much shorter movements follow, and then the symphony concludes with another humongous movement (38 minutes or so)--the "Resurrection" finale with soprano and chorus.
Myself, I've only really listened to the whole symphony just once, and the 1st Movement by itself one other time. It's not the kind of music I can relax to everyday.
I started listening to the Second today...and you're right about the intensity of that first movement.
I do not know if I could handle that live!
Am hoping to finish it up tomorrow.
edited: it was snowing pretty heavily tonight so I decided to drive home on the country roads rather than on the freeway and listen to another chunk of the Second. I'm not sure how the tracks on the CD match up with the movements, but I love the way Mahler used the percussion and the brass on what were the fifth and sixth tracks. I got home just as track seven began, and it had the voices.
The only thing is -- I'm not sure it was such a good idea listening to such an exciting piece of music for the first time while driving late at night in the heavy snow. I did stay on the road, but I also nearly ran over a skunk!!
Ha ha, you wouldn't want a dead skunk on your conscience, duchess. It would have been a fitting scenario, though. I can picture Mahler composing "Death & Resurrection: Symphony for a Skunk."
The last couple of days I've been trying to fit in time to listen to the Third, which I picked up at the same time as the Second. It's been a struggle, as it is so long its on two discs so I haven't been able to find enough time.
Perhaps because I haven't been able to listen to big chunks of it at a time, it just hasn't captured me as much as the Fifth and the Second.
Interesting that you say the Third isn't passionate enough, duchess, because it's the piece that got me hooked on Mahler in the first place. D'oh! Funny and fascinating how the same piece of music can affect people differently.
The 3rd Symphony means more to me personally than Mahler's other works (the 9th comes close). I tend to favor his odd-numbered symphonies over the even-numbered ones, just as with Beethoven. Spooky!
But who knows, maybe it happens more often than I think.
He really was, too. 
(Not that it'll be much. (For a change 
