Will Rand Fake Death? *Possible Spoilers*

[Revan]

i'm going to give you a few quotes from the book, then I'l explain afterwards,

Min's Viewing

Three woman standing over a funeral bier with him on it

In relation to another one of Min's viewings.

Min: "Rand, I like Alivia, But she is going to kill you." [Rand replies]: "You said she was going to help me die… Those were your words."

Egowene's dream:

"Logain, laughing, stepped across something on the ground and mounted a black stone; when she looked down, she thought it was Rand's body he had stepped over, laid out on a funeral bier with his hands crossed at his breast, but when she touched his face, it broke apart like a paper puppet."

Another one of Egowene's dreams:

"A man lay dying in a narrow bed, and it was important that he not die, yet outside a funeral pyre was being built, and voices raised songs of joy and sadness."

Can't remember where this is from, but I do remember reading it somewhere:

"The Servants and Guardians number equally, the future hangs in the balance, and he who is dead yet lives."

The Aleflin (Sp?) creatures told him:

"To live, you must die"

there is some more that I haven't been able to find yet... but if you read all that together, I think that there is a good chance that Rand is going to fake his own death, and that Alivia (The freed Seanchan damane) is going to help him do it... i don't have a clue or theory as to why, and what will happen after, but there you have it. What do you think? And does anybody have more evidence to back this up?

[I'm Murrin]

I think something will happen, and it will convince everyone, probably even the reader, that Rand is dead. Events will carry on in his absence - Logain will take over the Black Tower, Elayne, Aviendha and Min will all mourn him, etc. But then he'll reappear, and it'll be revealed what really happened (whether he faked it or something different occured).
I don't so far see any reason for him to fake his death - he's already "disappeared" after all. This one has to be something pretty dire - breaking his bonds and everything (which, now I think of it, would conveniently rid him of that Aes Sedai).

[Avatar]

Interesting speculation. And an even chance of being right I think.

--A

[Xar]

At this point I would rather say that there are two possibilities:

1) Rand dies (likely at the final battle) and in a prodigious feat of the One Power, someone resurrects him (there was that quote about Nynaeve, I think it was from either Fires of Heaven or Lord of Chaos, in which it was stated that "she wouldn't be happy until she Healed somebody three days dead", as well as the not-so-gentle reminders that "death cannot be Healed" which sound suspiciously like "stilling can't be Healed", and Rand's attempt at resurrecting the girl in the Stone, during Shadow Rising). Jordan is obsessed by religious similarities, so it wouldn't surprise me if he created a parallel between Rand and Jesus.

2) After the final battle, he fakes his own death, helped by Alivia, since after all he never wanted to be the Dragon Reborn and rule, and after the final battle, he would likely either be the greatest hero of all time, or someone many people would happily dispose of. So he fakes his death, leaving glory to Logain perhaps, and goes off to the Two Rivers or somewhere else to live a normal life, trying hard to be forgotten or to hide from the world.

[theDespiser]

yeah...right...normal life...with 3 wives?!?!! not bloody lilkely!!!


still, that DOES kinda sound plausible...ive been thinking about the "to live, you must die" thing too..and my conclusions are pretty similar...somehow hes going to die, but...not 'completely', or for all intents and purposes, hes dead..and if nynaeve healed him, i could see her dying in order for her to bring him back to life...maybe Lan finally dies, and she cant live without him, and as one last act of...healing...heals rand...


IT COULD HAPPEN

[Revan]

I wish that Jordan just had the balls to kill off a major character... just let someone we like dropped dead for once; and this time, permanently. I mean we all know that Rand is not going to die; I'd love Jordan if his endings weren't so transparent.

Is it that much to ask that Rand die; and stay dead?

[Xar]

There's a theory somewhere that goes so far as to claim that, since Rand is falling into pieces (literally!), his survival at the end of the Last Battle involves not just faking his own death to escape a future as the Dragon Reborn (can you imagine the queue outside wherever he'd be, to see the savior of the world, or to curse him?), but actually having a body swap of sorts in which he ends up in Moridin's body (which is conveniently little older than he is, but otherwise vaguely similar).

*Shudders*

[Avatar]

Interesting idea Xar...

...As I said, maybe he will fake it, or die and be Healed, (whoever said that "Death cannot be Healed" was a perfect set-up had a good point, I think.)

Maybe he'll actually die though. In fact, I think I'd prefer it if he did.

I, (sorry) am rereading the series again. I must say, with the knowledge of the next 11 books, it's very interesting to see people's behaviour, knowing what they'll do, who turned out to be DarkFriends, etc. Poor old Ingtar.

Anyway, yeah, a body swap would solve some probs, and we know it can be done. In fact, not only that, but it can be done after death. Yeah, suddenly, Rand looks even more like surviving it. *sigh*

--A

[Xar]

Interesting idea Xar...

...As I said, maybe he will fake it, or die and be Healed, (whoever said that "Death cannot be Healed" was a perfect set-up had a good point, I think.)

Thanks, that was still me

I personally think that although if Rand were to die it would make for a good ending, that poor guy has been through so much already, that if he keeps losing pieces like that, if I were him I'd leave a note for his next incarnation... "go to the Shadow, you idiot!" I even saw a poll somewhere about "Will Rand get to the Last Battle with enough of him left to fight?"

Besides, from another point of view, there's Min's viewing that Aviendha would have children from Rand which has not yet come to pass (she's not pregnant yet, so that means that... well, you know). Then there are all those viewings and dreams that suggest he will die and yet not die: all in all, it's very likely he'll at any rate be considered dead by the world, and Logain will get the glory while Rand gets what he wanted - a quiet life.

Hey, you know, I just realized that if that oddball theory about the body swap is true, and Rand's and Aviendha's quadruplets are conceived after the Last Battle, Min's viewing that "there'd be something odd about them" would fit with the thought that Rand is in Moridin's body, not his original one.

The next question will be - what of the three wives? I doubt Elayne would abandon the Lion Throne or Aviendha leave the Aiel...

[Avatar]

He'll travel between them of course. Aah, I thought it might have been you who said that.

What are the viewings/dreams about Rand dying and living again? I remember that the Aelfinn told Mat he would die again and live again, and that Egwene had the dreams about Rand on a bier, or floating dead down the river, but I can't recall ones about him living again.

If you'd be so good as to refresh my memory...(I'm only on book 3 in my compulsive reread. )

--A

[Xar]

Well, it was not explicit, but the Aelfinn told him that "to live, you must die", Egwene saw Logain step over his corpse, except that the corpse broke open like a paper puppet, and Nicola saw "three women standing on a boat, and he who is dead yet lives". There was also the one (I don't rmeember who came up with it) about the man in the bed who was dying, and it was important that he not die, yet outside they were building a funeral pyre.

[Avatar]

Aah, thanks Xar. The corpse breaking open like a paper puppet certainly is suggestive of the "body swap" isn't it? Forgot that the Aelfinn told him that...of course, we didn't actually "see" him with them.

And the "dead yet lives" does support the "faking" of his death. Hmmm.

And to think he is supposed to squeeze all that into a single book? Damn...hope it's not as fast as KoD was. I wonder if he's just getting sick of it?

--A

[I'm Murrin]

Rand's questions was "How can I survive the Last Battle", and the answer was "To live, you must die." (took RJ long enough to get round to telling us the exact question). The fact that the question concerned the last battle specifically should give some more context to the answer.

[Xar]

And to think he is supposed to squeeze all that into a single book? Damn...hope it's not as fast as KoD was. I wonder if he's just getting sick of it?

He said he'll cram everything into one book even if it turns out to be 2000 pages long... I guess it will be at least as fast as KoD, considering all the stuff he has to cover, and all the storylines he has to close.

Nobody will manage to persuade me that he didn't drag on the story from book 5-6 to book 11 because he had no clues as to what to do next, and as soon as he got the idea for the next series and sold it, he felt he could finally get it over with.

[Avatar]

I think 6 was still pretty good, but 7 was a definite let-down, 8 and 9 were scarcely better, and 10 was the worst of all.

I also think that he does the series just as much of a disservice by going too fast as he did by going too slow. Two or three more books would be better, considering the sheer volume of plots.

Too many of them will get short shift I fear.

(Looks like you, me and Murrin are the only people keeping this forum alive. )

--A

[Xar]

Well, the way I see it, he has two reasons to fit everything into just one more book:

1) Lots of disgruntled readers who just came back after hearing about how book 11 was good will kill him if he claims he needs 2 or 3 more books to get to the end, because they'll fear a return to book-10 horror, or at least book 7-9 tedium;

2) While he didn't have projects after finishing WoT, it was in his interests to drag out the story as long as he could. Now that he has a project and it's been sold already, it's in his interests to finish WoT as soon as possible, so as to work on the other project and get rid of the half-dead cat that is the 15-year-old WoT.

Of course, by the same token for all we know he could also be compelled to write just one more book because he's looked at sale figures and he's noticed that readers have decreased in the last few installments, so he might hope to finish with a bang in order to get them back.

I do hope the final scene of the Last Battle doesn't involve Rand and the Dark One fighting each other with the Powers in Shayol Ghul, Rand defeating the Dark One and then admitting he can't kill him, and asking his friends to defeat him by laughing at him... *sighs*

[Avatar]

All good points. The potential for a half-baked final book is a sadly real one...*sigh*

I suspect that too many things are going to be left half, or unsatisfactorily, resolved.

*shrug*

--A

[theDespiser]

i think he said once that not everything is going to be solved...and he still has 2 more prequel books to do

[Avatar]

Not everything resloved? Not that will be annoying.

*shame* I'll still read the prequels though *shame*

--A

[Xar]

I refused to read New Spring, and I think I'll find it easy to resist the other two prequels... I so do hate prequel books!

If it makes you feel better (or worse, it depends ), he has also said that he's got an idea for another story in the WoT universe, involving a few major and minor characters from this series, and that if "he finds it's strong enough", he'll write it after his new, officially six-book series "Infinity of Heaven" (which, I suppose, will balloon into 10-12 books...).