Star Wars: Episode 3

[Usivius]

Not sure if this is the best place for this (maybe I'll copy this to the 'movies' section), but here are my thoughts and impressions.

1. Wow.

2. That tied up a lot of loose ends.

3. Great visuals.

4. "The complaints"; a) dialogue: As was a little obvious, and we have known this from Episode 1, 2 & 4 (when Lucas did not have writing assistance), Lucas cannot write good, believable dialogue. This is never more painfully obvious as in the scenes of love-birds Anakin & Padmae. Also the verbal conflict scenes between Anakin & Obi Wan are not as effectively written as they should be. (Give the actors a chance to carry some of the message across with ACTING, not cheesy dialogue.) These are scenes which have so much emotional potential and are pivotal to the story that when they don't deliver, it lessens the impact of the tragedy.
b) "high ground?": WTF?! This was a very, very disappointing moment for me. The scene where Obi Wan dismembers and defeats Anakin/Vader. Obi Wan jumps off the lava flow on to a rock embankment, and tells Anakin/Vader not to do it because he has the high ground?!!! Since when does this matter to a Jedi? This was really bad. For this to work, Anakin/Vader has to be in a much more obvious disadvantage, THEN Obi Wan can give him the warning not to continue, but Anakin's rage and dark-side aggressiveness does not permit him to stop and he continues the battle when a retreat might be better. But the position the movie illustrates is pathetic... All Anakin/Vader had to do was jump to the side on a different portion of the rock embankment... sheesh! (As you can tell, the little nit-pick bothered me ALOT! Having said that, read on about my comments concerning the fight and birth of the true Vader...)

5. Thought long and loved much of its nuances.

6. I Loved Obi Wan: He is my fave of the good-guys. Ewan portrays him with such convincing charm, vulnerability and strength, that he comes across as the first trilogy's only truly 'fleshed-out' character. He had the best chances to show and deliver convincing emotion in scenes. There are so many hints to the man he would become (as portrayed in Ep. 4-6 by Sir Alec), that is was fun to watch. Unfortunately he had to deliver that terribly timed line, "I can't watch any more," after viewing the murder of the children, but we will blame that on George's writing and directing of that moment.
His action sequences and bits of character insight were great: hating space travel, ships and blasters and having an affinity for more 'natural' creatures. Yah, he is a pretty good pilot, but compared to Anakin who has an obvious gift for flying machines (as seen in the first battle scenes), he is average at best.

7. Poor Padme: she did not have much of a role in this one except to be pregnant, sit around and worry about Anakin (and deliver crappy dialogue). Cute girl with not much to do.

8. Anakin: I am not going to go in to too much more detail on how I thought the impact of Anakin's conversion to the dark side was not handled as well as it could. Suffice to say I thought the dialogue written was poor and the directing of such scenes was not very strong. Lucas should choose dialogue better, and more subtle, and allow the actors to ACT most of their thought and feeling, not say them. Having said that, Hayden was a really good image of a tormented man. He had that look, bulked up and all, that was convincing enough to carry through the weaknesses mentioned above. I liked him.

9. Yoda: yah he's pretty cool. 'Nuff said.

10. The Emperor Palpatine/ Darth Sideous: Now THIS is the character of ultimate EVIL. And you learn just how truly evil he is. Tying up many of the loose ends from Ep. 1 & 2, you see how his long planned machinations come to fruition, and how evil and morally corrupt he actually is (sacrificing Dooku for a plan to get a younger apprentice... cold!). I loved the way he pretended (?) to be in danger from Mace Windu to illicit Anakin's help. I argue that he was pretending because it all fits with what happened before that and after. Sideous could easily sense Anakin's presence, and could tell he was coming and orchestrate the battle to end at that moment. Yah, it took a lot of power to keep things on an even keel, but his gambit paid off. He is shown as too deep a planner to have such an even as being arrested not have a contingency for... ("Enact Order 66"... loved that!)
I loved the story Palpatine tells of the Sith Lord and his apprentice who later kills him (obviously Sideous), and the hints that perhaps this dead Sith lord may have 'impregnated' Anakin's mother (?... )

11. Miscellaneous: The notion of why the clone army was REALLY created, by whom and why are all answered. As are the notions of how and why the separatist movement and droid army/trade commission antagonist were created against the Republic. All controlled by Palpatine, they became his tools to gain power, destroy his enemies and those who could threaten him (Jedi) and maintain power. Beautifully (and remarkably subtly) crafted.
The question of the twins separation, Leia's family name, and C3PO's memory lapses are answered as well. I hypothesized that 3PO's memory was wiped because he was a protocol droid and could easily be hacked, whereas R2D2 was a military droid and had protocols likely built in to prevent hacking of info (as we maybe saw a hint of in Ep.4).
Special FX were pretty seamless this time around. I had no complaints this time as with the previous two episodes. Darth Grievous was a great character, a cyborg I guess, the horrible conclusion of the Vader-like syndrome of man becoming less human when relying on technology...
The look on Dooku's face when he was betrayed/sacrificed by his master (Palpatine pretending to be captured), was priceless. Although the whole escaping with Palpatine from the destroyed ship was a bit much, if Palpatine was doing this as a plan. ANYTHING could have gone wrong which would have killed them all in such a battle situation. But I won't nit-pik about that.
The scene where it cuts between Anakin in the Jedi council chambers and Padme in her room was good. Music and acting portrayed the tension and worry and decisions each was making in that situation. The many scenes that cut back and forth between those two locations many times were well set up. the notion that Padme could see the Jedi Temple where she lived made for some interesting scenes, especially when Anakin was killing everyone there.
Anakin's 'death' scene at the lava was chilling and well done. Suitably horrible, and setting up the man that Vader would become: twisted and broken, merely half the man he was. His 'rebirth' as the armoured Vader was obviously reminiscent of Frankenstein, but a good one.

Well, so much more can be said, but those are my immediate thoughts at this moment.

[Warmark]

could mabye put it in Star Wars Forum?
havent seen it yet, hope to see it soon.

[dlbpharmd]

This does need to be moved to SW forum.

Usivius: What's wrong with "I can't watch any more"?

I don't like the "high ground" line either. A simple warning or order to surrender would've been better.

[Myste]

Not to be pesky, but maybe this needs some spoilers...I mean, I've seen it, and hopefully anyone coming into the thread will assume that there'll be spoilers in it, but maybe, just to avoid a ruckus?...

Anyway, I thought EpIII did a good job of connecting everything, but I have one major question that so far no one has been able to answer for me:

Spoiler

If Padme dies in childbirth, how is it that in ROTJ, when Luke asks Leia if she remembers her mother, Leia answers with something like "only impressions...she was kind, but sad."? I mean, sure, Leia's got the Force & everything, but if she's using the Force (however unconsciously) to remember, why can't Luke do the same? I mean, he was there, too.

[duchess of malfi]

I've wondered if she is remembering her adoptive mother?

[Avatar]

Yeah, I think Fist suggested the same possibility, and asked if Bail Organa's wife had also died early.

--A

[duchess of malfi]

from the wonderful novelization:

Around a conference table on Tantive IV, Bail Organa, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Yoda met to decide the fate of the galaxy.

"To Naboo, send her body..." Yoda stretched his head high, as though tasting a current in the force. "Pregnant, she must still appear. Hidden, safe, the children must be kept. Foundation of the new Jedi order, they will be."

"We should split them up," Obi-Wan said. "Even if the Sith find one, the other may survive. I can take the boy, Master Yoda, and you take the girl. We can hide them away, keep them safe - train them as Annakin should have been trained - "

"No." The ancient Master lowered his head again, closing his eyes, resting his chin on his hands that were folded over the head of his stick.

Obi-Wan looked uncertain. "But how are they to learn the self-discipline a Jedi needs? How are they to master the skills of the force?"

"Jedi training, the sole source of self-discipline is not. When right is the time for the skills to be taught, to us the living Force will bring them. Until then, wait we will, and watch, and learn."

"I can..." Bail Organa stopped, flushing slightly. "I'm sorry to interrupt, Masters; I know little about the Force, but I do know something of love. The Queen and I -- well, we've always talked of adopting a girl. If you have no objection, I would like to take Leia to Alderaan, and raise her as our daughter. She would be loved with us."

Yoda and Obi-Wan exchanged a look. Yoda tilted his head. "No happier fate could any child ask for. With our blessing, and that of the Force, let Leia be your child."

A few thoughts:
Leia is a Princess because of her adoptive mother, the Queen of Alderaan, the wife of Senator Bail Organa. Since her biological mother was once Queen of Nauboo, the girl is a royal no matter how you look at it.

With the high medical tech available in the Star Wars universe, I wonder if the Queen had some sort of possibly serious medical problem, if she was not able to have a child. If so, it is possible that she might have passed when her daughter when was young?

[Myste]

I certainly see that as a possibility, but does anybody actually know? It's driving me crazy!

Oh, and something else I thought of --

Spoiler

When Obi-Wan and Anakin are on General Greivous's star destroyer, and Greivous blasts through the window of the bridge, thus depressurizing the cabin, why don't any of their heads explode? Seriously. People get ripped apart when holes appear in airplanes, and the altitude of Greivous's ship was a quite a bit more than airplanes can achieve.

[duchess of malfi]

Although the whole escaping with Palpatine from the destroyed ship was a bit much, if Palpatine was doing this as a plan. ANYTHING could have gone wrong which would have killed them all in such a battle situation. But I won't nit-pik about that.

Ah, another example of how and why the book is soooo much better than the movie (though I greatly enjoyed the movie).

Palpatine's plot:
1. he wanted to stir up Joe Blow Glactic citizen, he wanted them to be afraid (if that can happen to the Chancellor of the Senate at the Capital -- what can keep me safe?)

2. he wanted to orchestrate Annakin's first cold blooded killing (as opposed to the hot blooded killings he had already done at Tatooine) of his (Palpatine's) pawn, Dooku

3. I think his plans went a bit wrong. But he had a contingency plan for that, too -- he pulled himself back into the dark side of the Force, and allowed Obi-Wan and Annakin full access to the light side so they could save his bacon

I have to go to work in a few minutes, but I can post quotes when I get back home later tonight. Unless Fisty beats me too it.

[Usivius]

my sincere apologies for not thinking of spoilers. I at least should have put it in the title...

[duchess of malfi]

my sincere apologies for not thinking of spoilers. I at least should have put it in the title...

Not too late. You can go to the first post of the thread, click on the edit button, and change the title to include the word "spoilers" if you wish.

OK, here are the promised quotes.

Joe Blow Galactic Citizen's Response to Palpatine's "Kidnapping":

The skies of Coruscant blaze with war.

The artificial daylight spread by the capital's orbital mirrors is sliced by intersecting flames of ion drives and puntuated by star-burst explosions; contrails of debris raining into the atmosphere become tangled ribbons of cloud. The nightside sky is an infinate lattice of shining hairlines that interlock planetoids and track erratic spirals of glowing gnats. Beings watching from rooftops of Coruscant's cityscape can find it beautiful.

From the inside, it's different.

The gnats are drive-glows of starfighters. The shining hairlines are light-scatter from turbolaser bolts powerful enough to vaporize a small town. The planetoids are capital ships.

The battle from the inside is a storm of sonfusion and panic, of galvenized particle beams flashing past your starfighter so close that your cockpit rings like a broken annunciator, of the boot-sole shock of concussion missiles that blast into your cruiser, killing beings you have trained with and eaten with and played and laughed and bickered with. From the inside, the battle is desperation and terror and the stomach-churning certainty that the whole galaxy is trying to kill you.

Across the remnants of the Republic, stunned beings watch in horror as the battle unfolds live on the HoloNet. Everyone knows the war has been going badly. Everyone knows that more Jedi are killed or captured every day, that the Grand Army of the Republic has been pushed out of system after system, but this -

A strike at the very heart of the Republic?

An invasion of Coruscant itself?

How can this happen?

It's a nightmare and no one can wake up.

Live via HoloNet, beings watch the Separatist droid army flood the government district. The coverage is filled with images of overmatched clone troopers cut down by remoreselessly powerful destroyer droids in the halls of the Galactic Senate itself.

A gasp of relief: the troopers seem to beat back the the attack. There are hugs and even some quiet cheers in living rooms across the galaxy as the Separatist forces retreat to their landers and streak for orbit -

We won! beings tell each other. We held them off!

But then the new reports trickle in - only rumors at first - that the attack wasn't an invasion at all. That the Separatists wren't trying to take the planet. That this was a lightning raid on the Senate itself.

The nightmare gets worse: the Supreme Chancellor is missing.

Palpatine of Naboo, the most admored man in the galaxy, whose unmatched political skills have held the Republic together. Whose personal integrity and courage prove that the Separatist propaganda of corruption in the Senate is nothing but lies. Whose charismatic leadership gives the whole Republic the will to fight on.

Palpatine is more than respected. He is loved.

Even the rumor of his disappearance strikes a dagger to the heart of every friend of the Republic. Every one of them knows in her heart, in his gut, in its very bones -

Without Palpatine, the Republic will fall.

And now confirmation comes through, and the news is worse than anyone could have imagined. Supreme Chancellor Palpatine has been captured by the Separatists - and not just the Separatists.

He is in the hands of General Grievous.

Grievous is not like the other leaders of the Separatists. Nute Gunray is treacherous and venal, but he's Neimoidian: venality and treachery are expected, and in the Chancellor of the trade Federation they're even virtues. Poggle the Lesser is the Archduke of the weapon masters of Geonosis, where the war began; he is analytical and pitiless, but also pragmatic. Reasonable. The political heart of the Separatist Confederacy, Count Dooku, is known for his integrity, his principled stand against what he sees as corruption in the Senate. Though they believe he's wrong, many respect him for the courage of his mistaken convictions.

They are hard beings. Dangerous beings. Ruthless and agressive.

General Grievous, though-

Grievous is a monster.

The Separatist Supreme Commander is an abomination of nature, a fusion of flash and droid - and his droid parts have more compassion than what remains of his alien flesh. This half-living creature is a slaughterer of billions. Whole planets have burned at his command. He is the evil genius of the confederacy. The architect of their victories.

The author of their atrocities.

And his durasteel grip has closed upon Palpatine. He confirms the capture personally in a wideband transmission from his command cruiser in the midst of the orbital battle. Beings across the galaxy watch, and shudder, and pray that they might wake up from this awful dream.

Because they know that what they're watching, live on the HoloNet, is the death of the Republic.

Reason #2 for Palpatine's "Kidnapping" -- Dooku must die!!

Dooku, cringing, shrinking with dread, still finds some hope in his heart that he is wrong, that Palpatine has not betrayed him, that this has all been proceeding according to plan-

Until he hears "Good, Anakin! Good! I knew you could do it!" and registers this is Palpatine's voice and feels within the darkest depths of all he is the approach of the words that are to come next.

"Kill him," Palpatine says. "Kill him now."

In Skywalker's eyes he sees only flames.

"Chancellor, please!" he gasps, desperate and helpless, his aristocratic demeanor invisible, his courage only a bitter memory. He is reduced to begging for his life, as so many of his victims have. "Please, you promised me immunity! We had a deal! Help me!"

And his begging gains him a share of mercy equal to that which he has dispensed.

"A deal ony if you released me," Palpatine replies, cold as intergalactic space. "Not if you used me as bait to kill my friends."

And he knows, then, that all has indeed been going according to plan. Sidious's plan, not his own. This had been a Jedi trap indeed, but Jedi were not the quarry.

They were the bait.

"Anakin," Palpatine says quietly. "Finish him."

Years of Jedi training make Anakin hesitate; he looks down upon Dooku and sees not a Lord of the Sith but a beaten, broken, cringing old man.

"I shouldn't-"

But when Palpatine barks, "Do it! Now!" Anakin realizes that this isn't actually an order. That it is, in fact, nothing more than what he's been waiting for his whole life.

Permission.

And Dooku-

As he looks up into the eyes of Anakin Skywalker for the final time, Count Dooku knows that he has been deceived not just today, but for many, many years. That he has never been the true apprentice. That he has never been the heir to the power of the Sith. He has been only a tool.

His while life - all his victories, all his struggles, all his heritage, all his principles and his sacrifices, everything he's done, everything he owns, everything he's been, all his dreams and grand vision for the future Empire and the Army of Sith - have been only a pathetic sham, because all of them, all of him, add up only to this.

He has existed only for this.

This.

To be the victim of Anakin Skywalker's first cold-blooded murder.

First but not, he knows, the last.

Then the blades crossed at this throat uncross like scissors.

Snip.

And all of him becomes nothing at all.

How Siddious Lets the Jedi Save Him When Things Go Wrong:
While I have no proof, I believe that Obi-Wan was supposed to die on that ship. If things had ideally worked out for Palpatine, the kidnapping would have frightened the citizens, led to the death of Dooku at the hands of Anakin, either the space battle or Dooku would have finished off Obi-Wan, and Palpatine and Anakin would have safely escaped as soon as Dooku was dead. Of course, things never work out as planned...and Siddeous lets the two Jedi save him. (This will be shown in two quotes).

This is Obi-Wan Kenobi in the light:

As he is prodded onto the bridge along with Anakin and Chancellor Palpatine, he has no need to look around to see the banks of control consoles tended by terrified Nemoidians. He doesn't have to turn his head to count the droidekas and super battle droids, or appear to gauge the positions of the brutal droid body-guards. He doesn't bother to raise his eyes to meet the cold yellow stare fixed on him through a skull-mask of armorplast.

He doesn't even have to reach into the Force.

He has already let the Force reach into him.

The Force flows over him and around him as though he has stepped into a crystal-pure waterfall in the lost green coils of a forgotten rain forest; when he opens himself to that sparkling stream it flows into him and through him and out again without the slightest interference from his concious will. The part of him that calls itself Obi-Wan Kenobi is no more than a ripple, an eddy in that pool into which he endlessly pours.

There are other parts of him here, as well; there is nothing here that is not part of him, from the scuff mark on R2-D2's dome to the tattered hem of Palpatine's robe, from the spidering crack in one transparisteel panel of the curving view wall above to the great starships that still battle beyond it.

Because this is all part of the Force.

Somehow, mysteriously, the cloud that has darkened the Force for near to a decade and a half has lightened around him now, and he finds within himself the limpid clarity he recalls from his schooldays at the Jedi Temple, when the Force was pure, and clean, and perfect. It is as though the darkness has withdrawn, has coiled back upon itself, to allow him this moment of clarity, to return him to the full power of the light, if only for the moment; he does not know why, but he is incapable of even wondering. In the Force, he is beyond questions.

Why is meaningless; it is an echo of the past, or a whisper from the future. All that matters, for this infinate now, is what and where, and who.

He is all sixteen of the super battle droids, gleaming in laser-reflective chrome, arms locked with heavy blasters. He is those blasters and he is their targets. He is all eight destroyer droids waiting with electronic patience within their energy shields, and both bodyguards, and every single one of the shivering Neimoidians. He is their clothes, their boots, even each drop of reptile-scented moisture that rolls off them from the misting sprays they use to keep their internal temperatures down. He is the binders that cuff his hands, and he is the electrostaff in the hands of the bodyguard at his back.

He is both the lightsabers that the other droid bodyguard marches forward to offer to General Grievous.

And he is the general himself.

He is the general's duranium ribs. He is the beating of Grievous's alien heart, and is the silent pulse of oxygen pumped through his alien veins. He is the weight of four lightsabers at the general's belt, and is the greedy anticipation the captured weapons sparked behind the general's eyes. He is even the plan for his own execution simmering within the general's brain.

He is all of these things, but most importantly, he is still Obi-Wan Kenobi.

That is why he can simply stand. Why he can simply wait. He has no need to attack, or to defend. There will be battle here, but he is perfectly at ease, perfectly content to let the battle start when it will start, and let it end when it will end.

Just as he will let himself live, or let himself die.

This is how a great Jedi makes war.

This is Anakin Skywalker's masterpiece:

Many people say he is the best star pilot in the galaxy, but that's merely talk, born of the constant HoloNet references to his unmatched string of kills in starfighter combat. Blowing up vulture droids and tri-fighters is simply a matter of superior reflexes and trust in the Force; he has spent so many hours in the cockpit that he wears a Jedi starfighter like clothes. It's his own body, with thrusters for legs and cannons for fists.

What he is doing right now transcends mere flying the way Jedi comabt transcends a schoolyard scuffle.

He sits in a blood-spattered, blaster-chopped chair behind a console he he's never seen before, a console with controls designed for alien fingers. The ship he is in is not only bucking like a maddened dewback through brutal coils of clear-air turbulance, it's on fire and braking up like a comet ripping apart as it crashes into a gas giant. He has only seconds to learn how to maneuver an alien craft that not only has no aft control cells, but has no aft at all.

That is, put simply, impossible. It can't be done.

He's going to do it anyway.

Because he is Anakin Skywalker, and he doesn't believe in impossible.

He extends his hands and for one long, long moment he merely strokes controls, feeling their shape under his fingers, listening to the shivers his soft touch brings to each remaining control surface of the disintegrating ship, allowing their resonances to join inside his head until they resolve into harmony like a Ferroan joy-harp virtuoso checking the tuning of his instrument.

And at the same time, he draws power from the Force. He gathers perception, and luck, and sucks into himself the instinctive, preconcious what-will-happen-in-the-next-ten-seconds intution that has always been the core of his talent.

And then he begins.

On the downbeat, atmospheric drag fins deploy; as he tweaks their angles and cycles them in and out to slow the ships' descent without burning them off altogether, their contrabass roar takes on a puntuated rythym like a heart that skips an occasional beat. The forward attitude thrusters, damaged in the ship-to-ship battle, now fire in random directions, but he can feel where they're taking him, and he strokes them in sequence, making their song the theme of his impromptu concerto.

And the true inspiration, the sparkling grace note of genius that brings his masterpiece to life, is the soprano counterpoint: a syncopated sequence of exterior hatches in the outer hull sliding open and closed and open again, subtly altering the aerodynamics of the ship to give it just exactly the amount of sideslip or lift or yaw to bring the huge half cruiser into the approach cone of a pinpoint target an eighth of the planet away.

It is the Force that makes this possible, and more than the Force. Anakin has no interest in serene acceptance of what the Force will bring. Not here. Not now. Not with the lives of Palpatine and Obi-Wan at stake. It's just the opposite: he seizes upon the Force with a stark refusal to fail.

He will land this ship.

He will save his friends.

Between his will and the will of the Force, there is no contest.

[Fist and Faith]

Damn! Somebody's trying to steal my job!!!



NICELY DONE!!! THANKS!!!

[Avatar]

I'm sure you'll never be usurped, your highness.

Is it just me, or are there an awful lot of Star Wars threads floating around?

--A

[Fist and Faith]

It's just you. This is the only one I've seen.

[Avatar]

ha ha.

--A

[duchess of malfi]

Damn! Somebody's trying to steal my job!!!

that's about as likely as you needing viagra

[dlbpharmd]