Is Linden making a mess of things?

[Revan]

I've read several posts today... and the phrases "Linden is making a mess of things", comes up quite often.

Now, I personally think that this is more about hating Linden Avery than making an impersonal objective opinion.

To those that truly think that she is making a big mess of the situation she is in; what other choices are given to her? And what else can she do to make it better?

If indeed she is making a mess of it, what alternatives too those who profess this propose?

[High Lord Tolkien]

Everyone makes mistakes in these books.
It's what it's all about.
But we don't find out about it fully until the end.

[Nerdanel]

I like Linden, but I still think she kept making mistakes. Let's try to list them.

- Linden has not adhered to "Be true". She has made rash promises and broken some of them. Promises have power in the Land. Breaking a promise, even one made to Lord Foul - especially one made to Lord Foul - cannot have good long-term implications.

- Contrary to the opinions of Linden-haters, Linden has not stopped to think and reflect. The clues she has missed are too long and complex a topic to discuss here.

- Covenant told Linden to do the unexpected, but the quest for the Staff of Law is the THIRD ONE in these books.

- She has been too trusting, I feel. Perhaps falling under the Mahdoubt's magical glamour can be justified, but among other things she has been far too eager to take the course of action presented to her on a silver plate by Esmer the help and betray guy.

- Despite thinking repeatedly that good cannot be accomplished by evil means, she has used evil means several times already.

[wayfriend]

This is the chronicles of TC, not the chronicles of Linden. Nothing can be resolved by Linden alone - that's a premise of the story. So it's really not possible for Linden to save the day, or even come close.

The question we should be asking is, why so much story with no TC? Is it so Linden can make a bigger mess of things before TC comes and cleans up? I think that Donaldson has enough mess for TC, Linden's further messing is not needed for the story.

Another thing we need to ask is, isn't the Land doomed anyway? If it is, why would Donaldson be pinning it on Linden's shoulders?

[duchess of malfi]

Everyone makes mistakes in these books.
It's what it's all about.
But we don't find out about it fully until the end.

Agreed. I have no doubts that Linden has made some mistakes. But we might not find out what all of them were and what their long term implications will be until further along in the books. SRD tends to turn my expectations upside down, so I personally do not want to get into heavy speculation until at least one more book in the series comes out.

That said, I do love to read everyone else's speculations.

It will be a lot of fun after the release of each book, to see who came closest.

[Avatar]

She is making mistakes, that's undeniable. I greatly fear that her obsession with her son is going to lead to worse ones being made.

As HLT points out though, there's a reason she's making them though, because as somebody else said here somewhere, in fiction, there's always a reason.

She'll learn her lesson, but it will be a hard one.

--A

[Buckarama]

Maybe it just appears that way. Her love for her son is what saves the day in the end.

[Prom_STar]

Or maybe the triad of Covenant-Linden-Foul (Leper-Doctor-Evil Lord of Death and Destruction) will be completley switched around by the end.

Yeah. Foul will have leprosy, Linden will be the Evil Lord (a.k.a. fan-service to THOOLAH) and Covenant will become a doctor.

Uh, yeah.... that's what's going to happen.



please tell me someone gets The Real Story joke/reference.

[Buckarama]

Don't forget TC will probably find a mundane cure for Leprosy.

[Prom_STar]

But then the Amnion will show up giving birth to a tetro....

Oh, wait.

[Nerdanel]

I get that. But since I think it's Linden who has the leprosy, it would have to be Covenant as the Dark Lord and Foul as the eventual against-the-type good guy... But maybe they all get leprosy.

More seriously, I recently remembered the old saw from the earlier books that the Lords liked: Service enables service. It seems that Lord Foul has remembered that too, and has started using it. Linden has been served by Lord Foul, and also Esmer, the ur-viles, and the Mahdoubt. Remembering the vision in the beginning and the fact that Linden has met no old man in ocher robe this time, I really think Linden is inadvertently serving Lord Foul this time. I think she'll realize that and adjust her behavior... eventually.

[Prom_STar]

I haven't considered the absence of Mr. Ochre robe yet. That is an interesting puzzle piece... could the Creator really be out of the loop on this one?

[Nerdanel]

SRD has revealed that the reason for the Creator's absence would be a big spoiler. There are several possible explanations.

- He appeared to another new character. (Jeremiah/Sandy/Lytton)
- He appeared to a supposed antagonist. (Roger/Joan)
(He could have appeared to more than one person too.)
- He is dead or dying.
- He is in the Land now, because the caesures have made it possible for him to enter. (I don't really believe this point, as it seems to go against what we have been told, but I mentioned it anyway as it has been suggested seriously.)
- He thinks things will go better if he doesn't appear. It would lure Lord Foul to a false sense of security or something.

My guess would be that he has appeared to someone non-Linden like Sandy and she will be our surprise savior.

[Buckarama]

I don't really see Snady as being the savior to the Land, it has been mentioned before that these are the books of TC and I think it's still all about him.

I'm still thrown by him appearing in the last page, but I'm easily puzzeled

[Avatar]

Although I wasn't aware that it has been said that the reason for his absence would be a spoiler, my usual reasoning is that he already appeared to Linden in the 2nd Chrons.

He appeared to TC in the first, but not in the 2nd.

He appeared to Linden in the 2nd, but not in the 3rd.

Maybe everybody only gets to see him "in the flesh" as it were, once.

--A

[Xar]

Then again, Covenant was given the chance to talk with the Creator at the end of the First Chronicles, and Linden wasn't - she wasn't even offered the sort of reward Covenant was offered then. Given that she was instrumental in healing the Land, and had been chosen by the Creator, one would expect that he would have talked with Linden, as he did with Covenant, and offered her at least some reward for her service. Instead of the Creator, it is Covenant who talks to Linden in the gulf between the worlds; I wonder if this is a big hint about the relationship between Covenant and the Creator. Presumably, when one is in the gulf, he is neither in the Land nor in the real world, but "floating" somewhere (maybe the Creator's external universe?) while getting from one point to another. If Covenant is linked to the Land (being dead in the real world and being an entity that is integral part of the Land's world), how could he reach Linden so clearly in that gulf?

Also, re-reading the First Chronicles, it is explained that the Creator's inability to affect the Land is due to the Law of Time: that no act can be undone. This was explained by Variol and Tamarantha during the Quest for the Staff of Law. So, since the Creator sent Foul to the Land, he cannot remove him from the Land, because undoing his act would destroy the whole Land's world. He can, however, guide the creation in subtle ways, such as choosing Covenant and afterwards Linden for the summonings.

Now, if the Creator's inability to directly act against Foul is due to the Law of Time, and the Law of Time is being weakened...

[Fuzzy_Logic]

The Creator most likely appeared to Roger. After all, the creator's intervention never guaranteed that his chosen people would save the land--he specifically says that Thomas had a choice--and therefore it seems reasonable that Roger, too, had a choice, and chose Foul.

[CovenantJr]

True. It's possible that Roger, like his father, possesses some quality that places him on the knife edge between saviour and destroyer. Indeed, this could be a kind of Luke/Anakin switch thing, with everyone believing Thomas is the White Gold Wielder who will save or damn, when it's actually Roger.

- Linden has not adhered to "Be true". She has made rash promises and broken some of them. Promises have power in the Land. Breaking a promise, even one made to Lord Foul - especially one made to Lord Foul - cannot have good long-term implications.

Good point. Covenant was always obsessed with keeping his promises and 'bargains'. It seems to me that Linden's view is much narrower than Covenant's. He was often overwhelmed by all the potential repercussions of his actions, whereas Linden doesn't really seem to give it much consideration.

[wayfriend]

Personally, I think it would be cool if the book has Roger as a failed Creator-choice. But I don't think it's going to happen: we would have had more Roger POV in the prologue.

However, I can see a direction where Linden becomes Covenant's opponent. This is such a perfect Foulization.