Flight 77 did not crash into the Pentagon

[sindatur]

What no Conspiracy theory on this yet?

The video released yesterday has lots of folks believing it wasn't a plane that did the damage to the Pentagon on 9/11, some believe it was a missle. These folks are also apparently doubting that Flight 93 was crashed by the passengers after overpowering the highjackers. I guess the belief is this one was shot down.

[dlbpharmd]

If it was a missile that struck the Pentagon, then it was a missile the size of a Saturn V.

If no plane struck the Pentagon, then where are all the people who were on AA 77?

[aTOMiC]

I've heard of first hand, eye witness accounts of certain people watching in disbelief as flight 77 flew unrealistically low over their heads and crash into the Pentagon. I doubt one would mistake a massive jet liner for a missile. On the other hand it would have been much more helpful if someone had been fortunate enough to have been running video at that precise moment but if there are people who believe otherwise for some reason they probably wouldn't be swayed by video evidence. Not while it’s not impossible to fake such documentation. This sort of thing just ends up giving me a headache.

[wayfriend]

There's a thread in the conspiracies forum. Unfortunately, the title is "Wierd ...".

The topic started with an interesting flash film you can watch that prevents the facts of the conspiracy: No film footage of the plane hitting, despite numerous cameras. Footage from numerous cameras made unavailable to the public. No wreckage. Suspicous damage patterns. There is still green lawn where the plane supposedly crashed and exploded. Testimonies that got squashed shortly after they were published. Etc.

There's enough to half convince me.

[Loredoctor]

But the evidence against it is enormous. There's the fact that flight control recorded a plane head that way, and you just cant suddenly hide a plane with so many passengers.

[Avatar]

Wayfriend has posted the video that was released in the "Weird" thread.

I have to agree with his assessment that the video itself dispels no conspiracy theory.

And the fact that people saw the plane doesn't mean it isn't a conspiracy either.

Just curious...what was the time difference between the WTC and pentagon crashes?

--A

[dlbpharmd]

The video is certainly of poor quality. The one that I saw does show a white "blur" (for lack of a better word) very close to the ground striking the Pentagon. This blur is too large to be anything other than a plane.

Who says there was no wreckage?

[wayfriend]

Who says there was no wreckage?

The pictures of the pentagon with a hole in it, moments after the crash, that clearly show no wreckage of any kind. The official explanation is that they vaporized on impact. Yet, there is no evidence of a large explosion, either - the lawn, for the most part, remains green, and the hole is rather small. Can their be an explosion which vaporizes a plane which is otherwise very small?

BTW, something the size of a plane doesn't half to be Flight 77.

I'm just repeating the stuff in the pentagon.swf video. If you haven't watched it, you should.

[High Lord Tolkien]

I thought I knew all this stuff but were the people on Flight 77 aware at all of what was happening? By that I mean were there phone calls made via cell phone like on the other flights before crashing?

[Loredoctor]

Who says there was no wreckage?

The pictures of the pentagon with a hole in it, moments after the crash, that clearly show no wreckage of any kind.

Are you serious? They've found lots of wreckage. They even found engines inside the building. I've seen plenty of photos.

Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"

[dlbpharmd]

BTW, something the size of a plane doesn't half to be Flight 77.

This goes back to my earlier post in this thread - if it was a missile and not an airplane, then the missile had to be HUGE, much larger than anything carried on any jet fighter.

[wayfriend]

BTW, something the size of a plane doesn't half to be Flight 77.

This goes back to my earlier post in this thread - if it was a missile and not an airplane, then the missile had to be HUGE, much larger than anything carried on any jet fighter.

I think that the speculation (and I am only mentioning what I have read people say, I am not making statements of my own, hint, hint) is that it is could have been another kind of large plane, a military transport or even a cargo plane. Several witnesses reporting seeing a plane - that had no windows.

This doesn't seem to jive up with claims that there was no plane wreckage, at first ... but the theory is that it wasn't a passanger plane it was another kind of plane that carried something explosive aboard that would vaporize it and which is a state secret and hence a coverup.

[Loredoctor]

This doesn't seem to jive up with claims that there was no plane wreckage, at first ... but the theory is that it wasn't a passanger plane it was another kind of plane that carried something explosive aboard that would vaporize it and which is a state secret and hence a coverup.

Wayfriend, there was plane wreckage. How many times must I repeat it?

[wayfriend]

Wayfriend, there was plane wreckage. How many times must I repeat it?

"... (and I am only mentioning what I have read people say, I am not making statements of my own, hint, hint)"
You can repeat it as many times as you want, it won't change what news articals and websites have said in the past.

[dlbpharmd]

A quick Google search led me to an article published in Popular Mechanics - here's the portion of the article dealing with conspiracy theories about the Pentagon:

www.popularmechanics.com/science/defens ... page=6&c=y

[Loredoctor]

Wayfriend, there was plane wreckage. How many times must I repeat it?

"... (and I am only mentioning what I have read people say, I am not making statements of my own, hint, hint)"
You can repeat it as many times as you want, it won't change what news articals and websites have said in the past.

True, but it seemed to me, at least, that you were of that viewpoint. Still, it doesn't matter what articles say - websites don't count - because of what they found at the pentagon. I'm not attacking you Wayfriend. Just discounting the conspiracy theories.

[Avatar]

To be honest, the only way to be sure Lore, is to have seen the engines and wreckage personally immediately after the crash.

I just like the thought of governments doing horrible things to their own people I guess.

--A

[Loredoctor]

To be honest, the only way to be sure Lore, is to have seen the engines and wreckage personally immediately after the crash.

I just like the thought of governments doing horrible things to their own people I guess.

--A

You do realise how odd that sounds? To provide evidence to dispute a theory that you haven't provided evidence to believe or dwell on? Where is your 'engines and wreckage' evidence that the government is horrible? Second, how can anyone visit the crash site straight away? The place was a disaster zone for days. They found wreckage, so what are you saying? They ported the parts without anyone seeing and hid them there? It's a sign of flunky theory when you have to create further stories to support it.

[Avatar]

Huh? All I mean is that the only people who know that there was evidence of flight 77 crashing into the pentagon are the people who picked up that wreckage.

As for evidence that the government is horrible, well, there isn't any. Not that it's horrible in this sense anyway. That's why I just like the thought of it. Government might actually be completely altruistic and solely interested in the well-being of it's citizens. Or they might be power-hungry opportunists who will do anything to maintain that power, which they achieve by convincing people that they care about them.

--A

[Loredoctor]

Huh? All I mean is that the only people who know that there was evidence of flight 77 crashing into the pentagon are the people who picked up that wreckage.

So you either - A. Agree with me, or B. Think the people who cleaned up the wreckage are involved in a conspiracy.