[u][b]CNN.com[/b][/u] wrote:Mysterious red cells might be aliens
By Jebediah Reed
Popular Science
Friday, June 2, 2006; Posted: 12:36 p.m. EDT (16:36 GMT)
(PopSci.com) -- As bizarre as it may seem, the sample jars brimming with cloudy, reddish rainwater in Godfrey Louis's laboratory in southern India may hold, well, aliens.In April, Louis, a solid-state physicist at Mahatma Gandhi University, published a paper in the prestigious peer-reviewed journal Astrophysics and Space Science in which he hypothesizes that the samples -- water taken from the mysterious blood-colored showers that fell sporadically across Louis's home state of Kerala in the summer of 2001 -- contain microbes from outer space.
Scientists have yet to identify these unusual red particles.
Specifically, Louis has isolated strange, thick-walled, red-tinted cell-like structures about 10 microns in size. Stranger still, dozens of his experiments suggest that the particles may lack DNA yet still reproduce plentifully, even in water superheated to nearly 600 degrees Fahrenheit . (The known upper limit for life in water is about 250 degrees Fahrenheit .)
So how to explain them? Louis speculates that the particles could be extraterrestrial bacteria adapted to the harsh conditions of space and that the microbes hitched a ride on a comet or meteorite that later broke apart in the upper atmosphere and mixed with rain clouds above India.
If his theory proves correct, the cells would be the first confirmed evidence of alien life and, as such, could yield tantalizing new clues to the origins of life on Earth.
Last winter, Louis sent some of his samples to astronomer Chandra Wickramasinghe and his colleagues at Cardiff University in Wales, who are now attempting to replicate his experiments; Wickramasinghe expects to publish his initial findings later this year.
Meanwhile, more down-to-earth theories abound. One Indian government investigation conducted in 2001 lays blame for what some have called the "blood rains" on algae.
Other theories have implicated fungal spores, red dust swept up from the Arabian peninsula, even a fine mist of blood cells produced by a meteor striking a high-flying flock of bats.
Louis and his colleagues dismiss all these theories, pointing to the fact that both algae and fungus possess DNA and that blood cells have thin walls and die quickly when exposed to water and air.
More important, they argue, blood cells don't replicate. "We've already got some stunning pictures -- transmission electron micrographs -- of these cells sliced in the middle," Wickramasinghe says. "We see them budding, with little daughter cells inside the big cells."
Louis's theory holds special appeal for Wickramasinghe. A quarter of a century ago, he co-authored the modern theory of panspermia, which posits that bacteria-riddled space rocks seeded life on Earth.
"If it's true that life was introduced by comets four billion years ago," the astronomer says, "one would expect that microorganisms are still injected into our environment from time to time. This could be one of those events."
The next significant step, explains University of Sheffield microbiologist Milton Wainwright, who is part of another British team now studying Louis's samples, is to confirm whether the cells truly lack DNA. So far, one preliminary DNA test has come back positive.
"Life as we know it must contain DNA, or it's not life," he says. "But even if this organism proves to be an anomaly, the absence of DNA wouldn't necessarily mean it's extraterrestrial."
Louis and Wickramasinghe are planning further experiments to test the cells for specific carbon isotopes. If the results fall outside the norms for life on Earth, it would be powerful new evidence for Louis's idea, of which even Louis himself remains skeptical.
Alien Lifeform Discovered? (No, really!)
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Alien Lifeform Discovered? (No, really!)
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Wow. I was getting ready to check Snopes, thinking someone might've just thrown on the CNN and PopSci info, but the links are legit, anyway. So unless someone pranked PopSci real good... Too bad NASA doesn't have stock. Better than Shoemaker-Levi.
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Sure?Prebe wrote:No articles by any louis occur in As Sp Sci between 2000 and 2006. Sorry guys. Hoax allert.
The Red Rain Phenomenon of Kerala and its Possible Extraterrestrial Origin
Godfrey Louis and A. Santhosh Kumar1
(1) School of Pure & Applied Physics, Mahatma Gandhi University, Kottayam, 686560, India
Received: 18 October 2005 Accepted: 4 November 2005 Published online: 4 April 2006
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Good work, Murrin!Murrin wrote:Sure?Prebe wrote:No articles by any louis occur in As Sp Sci between 2000 and 2006. Sorry guys. Hoax allert.
The Red Rain Phenomenon of Kerala and its Possible Extraterrestrial Origin
Godfrey Louis and A. Santhosh Kumar1
(1) School of Pure & Applied Physics, Mahatma Gandhi University, Kottayam, 686560, India
Received: 18 October 2005 Accepted: 4 November 2005 Published online: 4 April 2006
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Thanks Murin. Googgle Schollar didn't find it. Sorry.
I'll check it out tuesday, when I have access to the full article from work.
Very exiting, but it IS an astrophysicist examining things. I'm looking forward to getting my biologist hands on the data
Can't wait in fact. Whatever the origin of the particles, I think it'll prove fascinating.
I'll check it out tuesday, when I have access to the full article from work.
Very exiting, but it IS an astrophysicist examining things. I'm looking forward to getting my biologist hands on the data

Can't wait in fact. Whatever the origin of the particles, I think it'll prove fascinating.
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I can't even do that much. I saw the movie at a Drive In when it originally came out, which was 1971. Unless I'm remembering something from a different movie, I only remember one icky part, involving a scalpel.Matrixman wrote:The Andromeda Strain is a favorite of mine, too. I read the book as well, but it's the movie that stands out clearly in my mind.
That's about all I can contribute to this topic.
Me too! How cool! SETI would be in Heaven!Matrixman wrote:Hope further experiments show that these are indeed "alien" microbes...

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Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon

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Link to full paper:
arxiv.org/PS_cache/astro-ph/pdf/0601/0601022.pdf
I've read it and have (so far) only one comment: THe apparent absence of DNA can be due to two things:
1: Method. These guys are NOT biologists. They have not tried to crush even 100 um fungal spores in a mortar before. Trust me, its's hard. And when the size is 4 to 10 um and what appears to be a wall makes up half of that, it's going to be damned near impossible. Notice how the article does not mention anything about visual confirmation of the objects actually being crushed. So, the DNA (if any) will remain inside the cells, not getting into contact with the fluorochrome (ethidium bromide, a coarse and primitive way of measuring DNA content).
2: UV-radiation. These particles/organisms must have spent quite some time in- or above the clouds in HEAVY UV radiation. UV radiation breaks down DNA faster (phosphor anhydride bonds between nucleotides) faster than Oprah would be on a baked ham. Now, their wall MIGHT protect the DNA, but if they are adapted to earth level sunshine, it probably won't.
Now, DNA or not, it's still interesting. My most parsimonious guess would be fungal spores, or very small sterile pollen grains (the scanning micrographs certainly give that impression. Both are found at extreme altitudes all the time. What we would need was a massive localised bloom of one species of fungus or (male) plant in a relatively short timespan, combined with hard winds.
As an example, Denmark has had yellow rain for a month now, due to birch pollen. The pollen discharge this year has been heavy enough to show up on satelite immages!
I'm not saying it's not interesting, I'm just trying to come up with a more plausible explanation.
Edit: Remember the journal is peer reviewed. And the peers of physicists are other physicists, so you could expect pretty much everything when it comes to biology.
arxiv.org/PS_cache/astro-ph/pdf/0601/0601022.pdf
I've read it and have (so far) only one comment: THe apparent absence of DNA can be due to two things:
1: Method. These guys are NOT biologists. They have not tried to crush even 100 um fungal spores in a mortar before. Trust me, its's hard. And when the size is 4 to 10 um and what appears to be a wall makes up half of that, it's going to be damned near impossible. Notice how the article does not mention anything about visual confirmation of the objects actually being crushed. So, the DNA (if any) will remain inside the cells, not getting into contact with the fluorochrome (ethidium bromide, a coarse and primitive way of measuring DNA content).
2: UV-radiation. These particles/organisms must have spent quite some time in- or above the clouds in HEAVY UV radiation. UV radiation breaks down DNA faster (phosphor anhydride bonds between nucleotides) faster than Oprah would be on a baked ham. Now, their wall MIGHT protect the DNA, but if they are adapted to earth level sunshine, it probably won't.
Now, DNA or not, it's still interesting. My most parsimonious guess would be fungal spores, or very small sterile pollen grains (the scanning micrographs certainly give that impression. Both are found at extreme altitudes all the time. What we would need was a massive localised bloom of one species of fungus or (male) plant in a relatively short timespan, combined with hard winds.
As an example, Denmark has had yellow rain for a month now, due to birch pollen. The pollen discharge this year has been heavy enough to show up on satelite immages!
I'm not saying it's not interesting, I'm just trying to come up with a more plausible explanation.
Edit: Remember the journal is peer reviewed. And the peers of physicists are other physicists, so you could expect pretty much everything when it comes to biology.
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Quick thaw of a thread in suspended animation:
news.yahoo.com/s/digitaltrends/nasascientistfindsevidenceofalienlife
news.yahoo.com/s/digitaltrends/nasascientistfindsevidenceofalienlife
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler]
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.