Runes, Prologue, Ch. 4: Malice

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Runes, Prologue, Ch. 4: Malice

Post by Avatar »

Wow, what a chapter. :D I joked before about the irony of somebody who usually only skims through the real-world sections of the Chrons getting this chapter to dissect, but actually, I could hardly have picked a better one if I tried. Herewith then, my first dissection. :D

Such an intense chapter...It starts on almost a frantic note, levels out at high anxiety, and then suddenly escalates even more steeply. This chapter alone justifies the constant anticipation of readers...the thought that is their constant companion through these books: "God, after this, what next? How will this be topped?"

I wrote this at home, so it's a bit long. ;)

The chapter opens on Linden...distraught as she often is, but consumed by one over-riding emotion: Rage. Rage at the old prophet for abandoning her. Maybe for abandoning the Land, because that is the closing thought of the previous chapter, but for giving her no warning.

To me, this is the first hint that Linden is, if not unbalanced, at least dangerously close to the type of mindset that will cause the Land harm rather than heal it. The Land and its needs are not served by anger. Anger is always a tool of despite. She makes an assumption based on faulty logic. The Prophet appeared to Covenant...once in the real world, the day he first was summoned. And yet he went four times to the Land. The prophet appeared to her once, the first time she went to the Land.

I can't fathom why she even thought that he should appear again, let alone be enraged by it. Instead, I think of her selfishness, the almost arrogant way in which she assumes that she must again be the Lands salvation.

Seconds before the chapter opens, Linden finds out that Bill Coty, the man she pressed into service to watch for Roger, has been killed. Shot in the head by the man she told him wasn't dangerous enough to warrant more effective protection than a can of mace.

Reason enough to shake her on it's own, reason enough to raise the ugly spectre of guilt that Linden has lived with for most of her life, and whose hold has only relatively recently been loosened.

Perhaps tellingly though, her first instinct is to check on Jeremiah. Although we may wonder since he is clearly not in immediate and present danger what spurs her, (afterall, any threat to him must surely pass her anyway), but to be fair, she has more than the usual amount of experience with what, for want of a better term, can only be called "the supernatural."

She overcomes her instinct though. The first thing she does is instead call Sandy, the girl who looks after Jeremiah. Her responsibilities have, for now, outweighed her fears, although at least partly because she has no reason to suspect Roger even knows of the existence of her son.

As she calls Sandy with trembling hands,the reality of Linden's personal potential culpability in the death of Bill Coty suddenly strikes home.
Linden had told Bill that Roger was not dangerous enough for guns. Now she knew better.
Stark, harsh, perhaps unbidden, it's the first indication that Linden realises her underestimation killed Bill. But the thought is almost an academic one in a way. "I thought this, now I nknow better." As though it's a lesson she's learned in time, and she is more focused on Sandy than on guilt.

Now, as another brief aside, I must mention that in the previous chapter dissection, somebody, (Dlb or WayFriend or both IIRC), put an unpleasantly sneaky suspicion in my head. One that I haven't been able to get rid of. So I'll borrow freely from it. They pointed out the curious fact that Sandy apparntly had no ambition other than to care for Jeremiah. Not even a social life that interfered with her opportunities to do so, and questioned her motives. Is she a plant? And now, here is the first part of the next suspicious element:

Sandy answers the phone almost at once. As if she had known that it would ring.

Telling Sandy that there was an emergency, Linden thinks again:
Bill Coty was dead because Linden had underestimated Roger's madness.
But she seems to ignore it. Sandy summoned, she rushes upstairs to check on Jeremiah, who sleeps peacefully, as blissfully unaware of any strife as he would be if he were wide awake and at her side.

Fears assuaged for now, she heads down to wait for Sandy, where, even knowing she can't be this fast, she hears something and opens the door in case it is her.

The winds slaps her in the face, "unnaturally cold." Is this Foul touching the world again? Or merely Linden externalising her fears?

It is Sandy out there though, although.it's unlikely that Linden could have heard her yet. Commenting on the speed of her arrival, we get part two of that suspicion. Sandy confirms herself that she had been waiting for the call.
Whatever bothered you today must be catching...I knew you were going to call. I already had my coat on when the phone rang.
Why? Heebee-jeebies? Or foreknowledge?

And then again:
Sandy nodded. She appeared to be listening to the wind rather than to Linden.
The wind the Linden herself had apparently already ascribed some malevolent quality to. Instructions? Or simply a distraction?

Convinced that she is abandoning her son, even in the absence of any visible threat, even in fact in the sureness that Jeremiah is unknown to roger, Linden heads for the hospital through some fine examples of the descriptive qualities of the writing. The wind whining in the wheel-wells, dark streaks of street-lamps, dust dancing from the windshield and tortured paper scraps of paper in the wind.

She arrives to find three patrol cars in her domain ahead of her, and an ugly hole where the door lock of the outer door had been before Roger shot it out, as she thinks for a moment of the orderlies, and writing off immediately the apparently timid Harry Gund, reflects on the determination of Roger, and possibly the potential death of the "huge and compulsively responsible" Avis Cardaman.

The redoubtable Sheriff Lytton and at least 6 deputies await in the hospital lobby, eyeing her as she walks in. On the floor, at her very feet, lies the body of the Bill Coty, in a pool of blood, futilely clutching his can of mace. Vividly, he is described:
The exit wound in the back of his head an atrocity of brains and bone. A dark trickles across his cheek underscored the dismay in his sightless eyes.
The orderly previously dismissed as ineffective gives every impression of having been so, Maxine and her husband hold each other in shock, and the duty nurse, Sara Clint is nowhere to be seen.

Linden drops to her knees beside Coty, perhaps in grief, reaching out for a second as though in the Land already, where she had been wont to heal with a touch. Perhaps already expecting the events triggered by Roger to result in a transfer.

Lytton barks a command at her, as she covers her face, but as she drops her hands, "her trembling fell away as if one aspect of her ordinay mortality had sloughed from her." The snake shedding its skin may be an unpleasant image to bring to Linden kneeling beside the body of a man who was friend enough to her to die trying to carry out her request. Let us hope it's not prophetic. ;)

Now, grief and guilt perhaps sloughed away with the trembling as well, Linden faces the crisis alone. Where before she had Covenant to buffer her, now she must be sufficient unto herself.

Already we see a form of clarity come upon her. She notes the freshness of the blood, estimating Rogers head start, when suddenly Lytton again interupts her. His description is not flattering. Fleshy, paunchy, it gives an impression of fake substance, and Linden bites back imprecations.

Harry pushes up as she replies to Lytton, and despite Lytton's attmpts to silence him, proceeds to give her the tale of the events. He describes Rogers gun, seemingly shocked that they hadn't been able to stop him and Linden listens carefully as Harry tells how a smiling Roger had shot his way into the hospital, and held them at gunpoint, of Bill's advance in the face of the threat, holding up his mace "as though it could stop bullets" and of the casualness with which Roger shot him down. Of Avis, huge Avis, tackling Roger and being beaten down by a quick blow to the head that meant he'd end the night on the operating table, as surgeons worked to remove bone fragments from his brain.

Almost as an aside Linden wonders at the ease with which Roger has proved so murderous. I've wondered about that myself in fact. We know next to nothing about his time before his appearance. If anything, his facility reminds me of Ravers I think. Of Marik's attack in particular, the speed, the strength, the...casualness, all hallmarks of Ravers, as, now that I think about it, that indifferent arrogance that he has so far demonstrated.

Harry also tells her of the abduction of Sara Clint...Rogers unwilling hostage, and of Joan, his willing one. The hostages suggest an ominous overtone to Linden. why, she reasons, would he need a hostage if he just wanted to get away? He was away clean already. hostages suggested insurance. And insurance suggested he wasn't done yet. Touched but not moved by Harry's appeal for understanding as he finishes, I must wonder if this sort of callousness can serve her. A doctor out of guilt rather than compassion, is she truly the healer she believes herself to be?

Lytton intrudes a final time, and now she turns to him as he demands how she had known that Roger would do this, (or something like anyway), and she orders him for a change. Orders him into the office, where we get perhaps our best look at Lytton as a human being. A suggestion that he is perhaps not the cardboard caricature of a human being he has seemed to be.

Once in the office, she does her best to keep the initiative...assuming the position of authority, the doctor behind her desk as Lytton immediately vents his frustration. Here we see some of the occaisionally deplored profanity that people often complain was unnecessary.
Personally, I think it was as necessary and apt as profanity ever is. Say what you like about it, it's a wonderfully expressive way of sharing your feelings briefly. It all depends on the tone of course, In Lyttons first use of the word f***, we can detect equal measures of anger, surprise and suspicion.

He makes his next mistake about Roger here. And Linden knows it is a mistake. He still thinks his plan is to get away. Linden knows it's to get her to follow him. The hostage almost proves it to her. She explains her foreknowledge much more mundanely than the reality she suspects though, and concludes with the accusation she had wanted to make in the lobby.
I tried to tell you.
And now the man behind the Sheriff appears. Dominant in posture, his eyes flinch. He knows she tried to tell him. And in as much of an apology as he is capable of making perhaps, he admits it.
Telling me how I ****ed up doesn't do shit for Sara Flint.
Lytton almost rants about his need to find Roger...to save Sara. Perhaps he's driven by a need to atone for not listening. Perhaps it's an election year. I prefer the first explanation.

Linden is unmoved despite the justice she acknowledges in his response. She cannot trust him, and maybe she is right not to. She fears his involvement will make things worse. In the face of his almost frantic haste, she demands to know what happened between he and Joan that night ten years before when she was arrested as complicent in Covenenats "murder" and this time Lytton tells her the truth.

As her pager beeps, he admits to, and even attempts to justify, the degrading, perhaps inhuman psychological treatment that Linden must suspect worsened Joan's condition. And in doing so, Lytton reveals not only his baser nature, but his fear. The fear that may drive him through his darkest moments. Moments like this one. And in his fear, his self-displayed weakness, he responds the only way he can. With attack. He accuses Linden and the now late Dr Berenford of being accessories.

Linden does not reply. Nor did she tell him that Roger was almost certainly on his way to Haven Farm, the home of Thomas Covenant, and Rogers Birthright. Almost brazenly trumpeting his intention to discover the truth, whatever that is, Lytton stamps from her office.

Her pager beeps again, and she recognises the number of Megan Roman. Once Covenants lawyer, and now her friend, as well as the first stop for Roger in his attempt to gain custody of his mother. Tempted to ignore it, She succumbs to her self-interest in the hope the Megan can help. Unwilling to go after Roger alone, unwilling to risk her life, to risk abandoning Jeremiah, and with no other way of affecting things now that Lytton had gone on a Linden-caused wild goose chase, she phones Megan Roman.

This has been a night of phone calls. A phone-call from Maxine to shatter her peace with the news of murder and kidnap, and now this call to the lawyer, who answers immediately, her urgency so palpable that it seems to physically rock Linden. She who had just weathered a crisss now heard more crises in the voice of the lawyer, ordering her home immediately. She knows what has happened and knows that Linden must know of her mistake. An event so trivial to her that only this murder has made it clear.
'I mentioned Jeremiah to Roger. A few days ago. He was asking questions about you. I told him you have a son.'
Somewhere in the background of herself, Linden started screaming.
Hell of a chapter. Lindens world torn apart not once, but twice in the space of...what...perhaps an hour or two?

Now perhaps you think that this chapter couldn't have been harder on Linden if Jay himself had done it. Perhaps you think THOOLah has paid me off. ;) Actually, she didn't do too badly. She forced her thinking to override her instincts. She thought rationally about what Roger would do. And like any mother, what motivated her more than anything was the continued safety of her son. Once she knew that threat was real though, it killed rational thought. But I suspect that this chapter shows the seeds of a havok that will be wrought in the future. Lets wait and see.

--Avatar
Last edited by Avatar on Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by kevinswatch »

Wow, what a coincidence! I was going to post the exact same thing!

Heh.

Anyway, thanks a lot, Avatar, for filling in for me! I really appreciate it. I really needed this time to work on my thesis. The timing just didn't work out for this. Maybe a later chapter. Thanks for DHing! Heh.-jay
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Post by Avatar »

No worries Jay. :D Like I said, it's about time I did one. I needed the moral highground back over Danlo, Dlb and MM. ;)

And it was fun. I definitely got a better idea of the point of doing these things. It really narrows your focus down from the whole story to the details, like this thing with Sandy. :D

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Post by variol son »

I forgot all about this, but I want to know what Lytton did to Joan - maybe he was influenced by Foul or a raver in some way?
You do not hear, and so you cannot be redeemed.

In the name of their ancient pride and humiliation, they had made commitments with no possible outcome except bereavement.

He knew only that they had never striven to reject the boundaries of themselves.
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Post by Avatar »

I'd think it pretty unlikely myself. By then, Foul had already been soundly defeated.

But I suppose that if one of the Ravers had been trapped in the real world by his defeat, that could be not only an influence then, but perhaps a possessor of Roger later?

I forget...we know Nom rent one Raver...what happened to the other two? Anybody remember off hand?

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Post by variol son »

Linden feels them cowering beneath her after she takes possession of the new Staff of Law in White Gold Wielder - other than that we know nothing.
You do not hear, and so you cannot be redeemed.

In the name of their ancient pride and humiliation, they had made commitments with no possible outcome except bereavement.

He knew only that they had never striven to reject the boundaries of themselves.
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Post by Avatar »

If she feels them both, chances are that they're in the Land I'd say.

If they've even been translated to the real world at all, I'd guess it wouldn't be until Foul started to recover.

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Post by dlbpharmd »

Oh, but we will soon find out, won't we?

Thanks for stepping in on this, Av!
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Post by Avatar »

Only a pleasure Dlb. Hope it's not too long or anything, but I was quite getting into it. :D ;)

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Post by dlbpharmd »

It's an excellent dissection, well done!

Like you, I'm more and more impressed by WF's suggestions about Sandy. Does anyone remember the 1970s movie, The Omen? Her character reminds me of the nanny. "Have no fear, child. I am here to protect thee."
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Re: RUNES OF THE EARTH - CHAPTER FOUR: MALICE

Post by wayfriend »

Avatar, you did a great job touching on all of the 'dissectable' parts of this chapter. I agree, it's an escalation, to be followed by more. Very explosive indeed.

I have some of my own things I'll bring up later, but I wanted to respond immediately to some of yours. (I cannot resist. ;) )
Avatar wrote:To me, this is the first hint that Linden is, if not unbalanced, at least dangerously close to the type of mindset that will cause the Land harm rather than heal it.
I have to admit, you are seeing Linden in a much harsher light than I do. I think the only questionable thing that she did was not flee with Jeremiah, and even then I have to admit, I think she thought she had more time. Besides, we know she cannot, or else there'd be no story. So I guess SRD had to explain it somehow.

But is she really "unbalanced"? I cannot help but remember that she became a formidable person in the Land. I see Linden here sloughing off her day-to-day persona, and becoming The Chosen. The woman who freed Covenant from the Elohim, who led the Quest, who made the right decisions to defeat Foul and the Sunbane both. She's no pansy! Lytton is like a lame puppie compared to a Raver.

Is Linden really blaming the Creator so much? Or is this merely SRDs way of highlighting the fact that he didn't appear, a way to relate it because it will be significant later.
Avatar wrote:Now, as another brief aside, I must mention that in the previous chapter dissection, somebody, (Dlb or WayFriend or both IIRC), put an unpleasantly sneaky suspicion in my head. ... Sandy answers the phone almost at once. As if she had known that it would ring. ... "I knew you were going to call. I already had my coat on when the phone rang."
(I did. DLB agreed.) Yes, this is precisely the additional thing that completes my suspicion that Sandy is an accomplice.

We've already seen that Foul can "motivate" a lot of people ... over thirty of the Community, for example. Why should we assume that Roger is the only person acting on Foul's behalf in this obviously well-planned action?

And do we suspect that Foul didn't know about Jeremiah until Roger found out about it? Are we even sure that Roger didn't know about Jeremiah until Roman told him? Foul was aware of Jeremiah ten years ago, and Jeremiah is connected to the Land ...
Avatar wrote:Lytton barks a command at her, as she covers her face, but as she drops her hands, "her trembling fell away as if one aspect of her ordinay mortality had sloughed from her." The snake shedding its skin may be an unpleasant image to bring to Linden kneeling beside the body of a man who was friend enough to her to die trying to carry out her request. Let us hope it's not prophetic. ;)
Brutal! You're normally so well-meaning and polite, Av ... anyway, this The Chosen emerging, not a snake. Meanie. :cry:
Avatar wrote:Almost as an aside Linden wonders at the ease with which Roger has proved so murderous. I've wondered about that myself in fact. We know next to nothing about his time before his appearance. If anything, his facility reminds me of Ravers I think. Of Marik's attack in particular, the speed, the strength, the...casualness, all hallmarks of Ravers, as, now that I think about it, that indifferent arrogance that he has so far demonstrated.
Precisely the remark I was going to make. Roger seems to have the extra strength, malice, and killing talent of a Raver. (SRD did go out of his way to say how big and strong this man was, and how decisively he was taken out by Roger.) I've pointed out some earlier clues that point to Raver in earlier chapters, too.
Avatar wrote:The hostages suggest an ominous overtone to Linden. why, she reasons, would he need a hostage if he just wanted to get away? He was away clean already. hostages suggested insurance. And insurance suggested he wasn't done yet.
A good point. Now that I think of it, I have to say: I don't think Roger needs a hostage. I think SRD is misleading us by having a character suggest it. I think Sandy is needed for another purpose. Maybe it's only for blood to feul a bloody rite. Maybe something else. Having Jeremiah, it is more than certain that Roger didn't need Sandy to motivate Linden!
Avatar wrote:Personally, I think it was as necessary and apt as profanity ever is.
Agreed.
Avatar wrote:Perhaps you think THOOLah has paid me off. ;)
Naw, THOOLAH doesn't have two dimes to rub together. But they may have carried you away and beat you with a stick. They are that type. ;)
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Post by wayfriend »

( Sorry for the double-post, but it's later for me now. )

The only thing on my list of things to mention, that Avatar hadn't, is what happened in the police car to Joan.
"Oh, it's nothing much," he answered between his teeth. "I didn't hurt her or anything, if that's what you think.

"Of course, I cuffed her. She was a ****ing accessory, for God's sake. For all I knew, she'd killed her damn ex." He faltered for an instant, wincing. Then he rasped, "After that, I made her ride in back."

The back of the police car: the cage. Bars between her and the front seat. No handles inside the doors. Like a dangerous criminal.

After what she had suffered --

"She asked me why," he went on. "She was ****ing hysterical about it. So I told her."

Linden stared at him. His gaze held a throng of conflicts.

"Told her --?" she asked weakly.

"The truth, Dr. Avery." His tone was thick with disgust. "Her ex was a ****ing leper. And she was married to him before she knew he had it. She probably had it herself. Hell, she probably still does. If nothing else, she's a damn carrier.

"I made her ride in back because I didn't want to get infected."

Linden heard him clearly. He was trying to sound justified. But he failed. The plain cruelty of his actions defeated him.

Before she could react, he leaned over her desk again. "That upsets you, doesn't it, Doctor. You don't think I should have been so mean to her.

"Well, **** you. We should have talked about your complicity in that murder ten years ago. You're an accessory, too, but the sainted Julius Berenford protected you. The two of you hid the truth. I'm the sherriff of this county, and you didn't let me do my job.

"Now you're at it again. But this time you won't get away with it. I'll find them without you. And when I do, I'm going to make damn sure you get your share of the blame."

Then he stood up and wheeled out of her office.
First of all, I don't think Lytton told Linden what happened. I think he changed the topic pretty rapidly to leprosy, and then to Linden's complicity. He never really said what he did in the police car.

Except to say, he told her "the truth". What truth did he tell her? That Covenant was dead? That she was an accessory? That she carried leprosy?

If telling the truth is the only thing that happened, which I doubt, but lets assume, then Joan must have reacted to Covenant's death.

But lets consider it backwards now. Her reaction to whatever happened was "she was a vegetable". Whatever state she was in when Roger found her in chapter one, she entered this state at that moment! If she is possessed by a Raver, or by Foul, or merely being tormented by them, or if she is in the Land somehow ... whatever it is ... it began in that police car.

If Foul has access to Joan again, he gained it in Lytton's police car.

For this reason, I must add Sherrif Lytton to my list of Foul slaves appearing in the Prologue.

It may be that the news of Covenant's death alone explains her vegetative state. But I don't think that's sufficient to explain ten years of it. It's possible that Foul came along (came back, really) somewhere in those ten intervening years. Maybe it was only a year ago, when she began punching her temple.

But Lytton deflected the question about what happened ten years ago.

And Sandy came along to take care of Jeremiah seven years ago.

I think that Foul had been laying his plans for a very, very, very long time.

(Freakazoid level speculation: Foul was in no shape immediately after Covenant bested him. But he retreats somewhere to heal. He did not retreat into the Earthpower this time, else Linden would have found him while healing the Sunbane. Could he have retreated ... into Joan?)
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Post by I'm Murrin »

Wayfriend wrote:First of all, I don't think Lytton told Linden what happened. I think he changed the topic pretty rapidly to leprosy, and then to Linden's complicity. He never really said what he did in the police car.

Except to say, he told her "the truth". What truth did he tell her? That Covenant was dead? That she was an accessory? That she carried leprosy?

If telling the truth is the only thing that happened, which I doubt, but lets assume, then Joan must have reacted to Covenant's death.
I disagree with this assessment - I think Lytton told the truth to Linden. He told Joan he was putting her in the back because he didn't want to catch leprosy from her. Do you not see how brutal that is? Lytton couldn't have known, but Joan had been punishing herself for ten years for abandoning Covenant, for running away out of fear. Now, she has the same fear being directed towards herself, she is the one being put in the situation Covenant had been in. After everything, and in the fragile state she was in following her possession--and not to mention, combined with the knowledge that he had died, for her--that would have been crushing.



I admit to a certain discomfort to Linden's reaction to the death of Bill Coty. Something about it... the mentality, perhaps: No time for grief until it's over. Don't let it get to you, focus on your goal, your purpose. I can see in that reaction, that blocking off of her first emotional reaction, a further step--I see it as, not a certainty, but an implication, a possibility. A potential within Linden's character, that might lead her to ignore everything that does not directly concern her immediate goal--stopping Roger; getting her son back. An attitude that would be nothing but destructive if she has it when she reaches the Land.
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Post by dlbpharmd »

I can see Joan being completely terrified at the thought of having leprosy (as Lytton implied.) Combine that with months of possession, and her ex-husbands death, I can see how that would make her lose her mind completely. But yet, something just doesn't fit about it. I can't help but wonder if Lytton assaulted her.
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Post by I'm Murrin »

I wouldn't saying it was fear of having leprosy that did it to her - in fact, far from it. I wouldn't say that Lytton suggested it, really, either, but then, Lytton's interpretation of how she reacts to what he says would be coloured by his own prejudice in any case, so wouldn't be accurate.
It's guilt. Guilt and self-loathing that originated in her abandonment of Covenant before the first chrons. Like Linden, like Covenant, guilt underlies her character.

(An interesting thought there. Was Hile Troy free of guilt? I mean, guilt that he acknowledged, that he imposed upon himself?)
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Post by dlbpharmd »

It's guilt. Guilt and self-loathing that originated in her abandonment of Covenant before the first chrons. Like Linden, like Covenant, guilt underlies her character.
Yes, I can see that as well.
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Post by Relayer »

Avatar wrote:To me, this is the first hint that Linden is, if not unbalanced, at least dangerously close to the type of mindset that will cause the Land harm rather than heal it. The Land and its needs are not served by anger. Anger is always a tool of despite. She makes an assumption based on faulty logic. The Prophet appeared to Covenant...once in the real world, the day he first was summoned. And yet he went four times to the Land. The prophet appeared to her once, the first time she went to the Land.

I can't fathom why she even thought that he should appear again, let alone be enraged by it. Instead, I think of her selfishness, the almost arrogant way in which she assumes that she must again be the Lands salvation.

What I really noticed is how often she thinks something starting with the word "Surely" -- "surely nothing could have happened to Jeremiah in the last 20 minutes" -- "surely the old man would've appeared" -- "surely Roger would understand, once he saw his mother" etc. I think it's her doctor's training (and her own fear from her childhood), that sense of needing to be in control and know everything. Not so much a conscious arrogance - that's Roger and Foul's job - but a self-centered assumption that surely she has all the answers. You'd think she would've learned from her sojourn in the Land that doesn't work :)

Who else will Linden underestimate?

Wayfriend wrote:
Avatar wrote:Now, as another brief aside, I must mention that in the previous chapter dissection, somebody, (Dlb or WayFriend or both IIRC), put an unpleasantly sneaky suspicion in my head. ... Sandy answers the phone almost at once. As if she had known that it would ring. ... "I knew you were going to call. I already had my coat on when the phone rang."
(I did. DLB agreed.) Yes, this is precisely the additional thing that completes my suspicion that Sandy is an accomplice. We've already seen that Foul can "motivate" a lot of people ... over thirty of the Community, for example. Why should we assume that Roger is the only person acting on Foul's behalf in this obviously well-planned action?
I was also in on that one, after WF brought it up. And I agree, I noticed the parts about Sandy this time too... how quickly she answered the phone and got to Linden's house. Her explanations were completely plausible. She's probably never seen Linden upset like she was that afternoon, and naturally worried. And yet... What do we know about Sandy's past? For all we know, she may have been w/ the Community at some point, too. No reason to assume that everyone there acts wacko. Roger seemed like a nice guy to everyone else too.
Wayfriend wrote:And do we suspect that Foul didn't know about Jeremiah until Roger found out about it? Are we even sure that Roger didn't know about Jeremiah until Roman told him? Foul was aware of Jeremiah ten years ago, and Jeremiah is connected to the Land ...
I think I mentioned this earlier too... Roger and Jeremiah were both in the Community, there's no reason not to think that they'd met. Maybe even Jeremiah is working for Foul!! (though for some reason I doubt this)
Plus, aren't adoption proceedings a matter of public record? Roger could've googled Linden's name and found lots of info... Megan may not have given anything away by telling Roger. Or maybe Megan is in on it, too...
Wayfriend wrote:Now that I think of it, I have to say: I don't think Roger needs a hostage. I think SRD is misleading us by having a character suggest it. I think Sandy is needed for another purpose. Maybe it's only for blood to feul a bloody rite. Maybe something else. Having Jeremiah, it is more than certain that Roger didn't need Sandy to motivate Linden!
You mean Sara? It reminds me of how Foul will bait a trap with someone, when he doesn't even need to (Pietten, Llaura, Hoerkin). Linden is still at the hospital
Spoiler
and doesn't yet know that Sandy has been "kidnapped" (I use the word in quotes because we don't know if this is true).
Though she certainly fears Roger will go after Jeremiah. At this point, she only knows he has Sara and Joan. Maybe Roger just does need the blood. He knows Linden will come after Joan, and doesn't need Sara to lure her.
Spoiler
IIRC isn't Sara killed in the house at Haven Farm, or was that someone else? If so, Sara's blood wasn't necessary for the summoning.
Murrin wrote:I think Lytton told the truth to Linden. He told Joan he was putting her in the back because he didn't want to catch leprosy from her... ... ... Joan had been punishing herself for ten years for abandoning Covenant, for running away out of fear. Now, she has the same fear being directed towards herself, she is the one being put in the situation Covenant had been in. After everything, and in the fragile state she was in following her possession--and not to mention, combined with the knowledge that he had died, for her
I'm not sure I understand how that pushed Joan over the edge, but your explanation makes sense from the "real world" perspective (as opposed to Foul possessing her). I do agree w/ your assessment that Lytton told the truth, but I think maybe not the whole truth. I think it fits his character to be that judgemental and fearful (Lytton's personality reminds me of the one-armed truck driver that Covenant goes drinking with in TIW).

There's been a murder and maimings (though I doubt he's too upset about Covenant finally being out of his hair), and all he can do is drive the leper's ex-wife back to town. He's pissed, and takes it out on someone who represents fears and hassles he's had to deal with since TC got leprosy. But the first time I read it I got the feeling he assaulted her, too... or at least really made a show of threatening her.
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Relayer wrote:
Wayfriend wrote:Now that I think of it, I have to say: I don't think Roger needs a hostage. I think SRD is misleading us by having a character suggest it. I think Sandy is needed for another purpose. Maybe it's only for blood to feul a bloody rite. Maybe something else. Having Jeremiah, it is more than certain that Roger didn't need Sandy to motivate Linden!
You mean Sara?
Yes. :oops:
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Post by tonyz »

Murrin wrote: I disagree with this assessment - I think Lytton told the truth to Linden. He told Joan he was putting her in the back because he didn't want to catch leprosy from her. Do you not see how brutal that is?
I tend to agree. Donaldson's not above setting up a character to give us extensive lies at the start (Erennis in Mordant's Need, for example), but this fits with Lytton's character as we know it from <i>The Illearth War</i>. If Lytton hadn't wanted to tell Linden he could have just stonewalled like he's been doing for the past ten years.
Murrin wrote: I admit to a certain discomfort to Linden's reaction to the death of Bill Coty. Something about it... the mentality, perhaps: No time for grief until it's over. Don't let it get to you, focus on your goal, your purpose. I can see in that reaction, that blocking off of her first emotional reaction, a further step--I see it as, not a certainty, but an implication, a possibility. A potential within Linden's character, that might lead her to ignore everything that does not directly concern her immediate goal--stopping Roger; getting her son back. An attitude that would be nothing but destructive if she has it when she reaches the Land.
Yes. It's a good doctor's reaction: shut down until you've fixed the patient; don't let nausea stop you from helping.

On the other hand, I agree with you that "nothing but Jeremiah" is going to be a very destructive attitude when Linden gets to the Land. I've argued for this a bit in past threads.

On the gripping hand, let's compare Covenant being willing to deny the Land entirely in order to save one little girl in his world, and Mhoram's approval of that action. How is Linden's pursuit of Jeremiah different?


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Post by Relayer »

tonyz wrote: On the gripping hand, let's compare Covenant being willing to deny the Land entirely in order to save one little girl in his world, and Mhoram's approval of that action. How is Linden's pursuit of Jeremiah different?
That's a good point. And, to emphasize it, she thinks this very thought any number of times...
"History is a myth men have agreed upon." - Napoleon

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