Lord Fouls Bane Review

[Wosbald]

+JMJ+

Thought the review was "a damn good read", sho'nuff.

Obviously, I disagree with his implicit appraisal of the whole (10 volume) arc and pessimism toward SDR's place in the literary canon, though that's probably just my tittering and flushing fanboyishness speaking. Lawdy, I got the vapors!

The First Chronicles will probably be around for a while. The other two, not so much. That's just the way literary canon goes, any long series that is on it tend to be hanging on by a thread. People don't like to be told to read a bazillion books when they ask what classics they should read.

I would probably agree if 'tweren't for the Last Chrons. I'd prolly agree that the 1st Chrons is definitive, inasmuch as it could've stood alone. But the 1st Chrons' thematic of Freedom only becomes full-orbed with the Last Chrons' thematic of Providence. The 1st Chrons only makes sense in terms of the Last (and of everything in between). And vice versa.

Of course, the full exposition of an author's thought is not always seen as relevant when considering canon (a field which often only considers the linear effect of authors' works upon subsequent history), but still, I think that one can't evaluate the significance of a work without examining the personage of the author.

It may be true that it is only the 1st Chrons which will be considered "essential and definitive" according to canon. But it may also be that it is the Last Chrons which has secured the 1st its place.

[Cagliostro]

I loved the review as well. Several things I had never thought of, such as how bloody-minded Donaldson had been to send the manuscript out so many times. There were a lot of perspectives in the review that I had never thought of, such as the difference in the viewing of anti-heroes between the 70's and now. Back then, it was anti-heroes like in Chinatown, Mad Max or the French Connection, to name a few. They were grim and not the fun anti-heroes we have now, such as in Guardians of the Galaxy, or whatnot. Something that never occurred to me until reading the article.

[Vraith]

Not remotely! Because Avatar comes from South Africa, as everyone knows. And South Africa is entirely peopled with criminals. And criminals don't read. So clearly there is something wrong with you

Uh, isn't that Australia you're thinking of?
--A

Australia is a myth.

Anyway, among other things, there are language things going on of a kind that appeals to me. [LFB, and Donaldson generally, do that to---though not the same flavor].
In quirky, semi-surreal or abstract ways, it's got little "The Waste Land"-ish bites/snippets.

Cag---I agree...that was a pretty insightful thing on the anti-hero.
I'm tempted to say...so I will...that it's like the previous kind were immersed in/adapted/connected to the "dark", it was component of identity. The new kind, they may be surrounded/enveloped---but they're resisting, it's separate or compartmentalized. The old kind may have grown past/through---eventually---the new kind more escaping from/getting out.
I'm not sure if that makes sense or not...
I'd have to do a lot more thinking and research to make sure/show that---just an impression, could be off.

[wayfriend]

Meh. No one really knows what an anti-hero is supposed to be any more. People think Batman is an anti-hero. People think Bilbo isn't one.

[Cagliostro]

I know what an anti-hero is. Isn't Superman one of the most well known anti-heroes?

It's 'cause he's from space, right?

[Avatar]

--A

[wayfriend]

He’s not some fun little anti-hero, so evil that he cannot be taken seriously. He’s a normal guy, doing things normal guys might do ...

I'm just saying, when they are "fun", or when they are "dark", they are not really anti-heroes. Or, at least, that's not what makes an anti-hero. An anti-hero lacks heroic qualities. The endearing, amazingly competent, and ripped guy who makes snarky quips and stays on the wrong side of the law isn't an anti-hero, because he's endearing, amazingly competent, and ripped, not to mention [presumably] witty and clever. He's got the hero toolbag.

That's not a comment on what Cags said (sorry if you took it that way), that's a comment on pop culture in general. (Which I suspect Cags might agree with.)

[Cagliostro]

Well, I've heard Han Solo referred to as an anti-hero, as well as Star Lord guy from Guardians of the Galaxy. But you are right - they aren't so much anti-heroes as "reluctant heroes." I wasn't quite looking at it that way, and it looks like the definition is that they pretty much good and bad qualities. So to some degree, you could say Han Solo was a bit of one, in that he was about to leave the Death Star battle at the end of the first movie, but by not running off, made himself a proper hero.

[Linna Heartbooger]

Are Martin and SRD good friends? First I've heard of it.

Sorry. I know that's complete and utter bulls**t!

seareach, is this something you're sure of?
Or even that you're sure was not the case in 2005...

Because if you look at the 2005 thread we have where someone said that someone said that GRRM said that he and SRD were friends:
kevinswatch.ihugny.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8286&start=0
...if you look at the post with an eye to whether it looks likely to contain reliable information... it looks completely fishy!

Okay... it does look like the claim that GRRM said he and Donaldson are friends is also on the GRRM fan site's "things GRRM said," but that's not up to the likelihood of reliability of something like the Gradual Interview.

Edit:okay, maybe not completely fishy..

[Rigel]

Interesting read, though I disagreed with some of his conclusions at the end.

He's wrong about Donaldson being unable to change his style to make the story better (as anyone who's read literally anything else by Donaldson could attest to). It's just that this story demanded a certain style, so SRD wrote it that way.

Also, I disagree with his contention that there is no plot in LFB. Most of the plot is internal, rather than external, which is why a lot of people miss it, but it is there.

when Donaldson goes dark he goes for your soul

This guy needs to read The GAP

[Avatar]

Hahaha, that's what I said to him.

--A