Drink from clearish streams? (was "What is holy?")

[Frostheart Grueburn]

There are plenty of cultures in which there's no separate religion, per se -- just an expectation or admonition that you're to live and act a certain way. The Navajo call it "walking in beauty". It's (as I understand it) about striving to live in harmony with everything around you. Indigenous Australians have an ingrained sense of belonging to a specific place -- their stories and rituals revolve around taking care of their homelands.

Finnic neopaganism as well, in its own fashion. Very nature-oriented, and encourages one to "listen" to the environment and feel the spirit and beauty of the nature. I have a particular hiisi upon an iron-age hill fort/cult site where I sometimes climb up to meditate. The site possesses an extraordinarily becalming atmosphere stemming somewhere from the rock/attached spirits, but one must also get used to the feeling of being observed at by something invisible. Quite a few people (even some "rational ones" ) have felt the same unknown presence up there.

[Avatar]

the idea of "spirits of place," as one example.

Always preferred Fillets of Plaice myself.

--A

[Linna Heartbooger]

Fist- Ah. thank you for giving me a heads-up on that bit of context!

My worship practices would not necessarily serve him well, nor do his work for everyone.

You say that.
I say that learning the scriptures and praying (for example) are necessary in the life of anyone who would worship the God who made the world.
Who will say which of us is right?

Christians didn't invent separating Holy from Not Holy...why immanence in only some places?
...
...What makes the Oak, the Holy Spring, the Cathedral more special than the Porcelain Throne?

You know, it's funny you bring up that particular example.
A friend told me about a group of people talking about prayer.
And there was this one guy who was dealing with major illness, and these people love him, so when he spoke up, all eyes were fixed on him.
He was like, "Prayer is talking to God. We can talk to God anywhere we are, right?"

[Fist and Faith]

My worship practices would not necessarily serve him well, nor do his work for everyone.

You say that.
I say that learning the scriptures and praying (for example) are necessary in the life of anyone who would worship the God who made the world.
Who will say which of us is right?

You need to give him reason to believe you're right if you want him to think you're right. His position is that you do not have to think he's right.

In an objective sense, he's right. His worship practices would not necessarily serve Dr Hawley. Who is arguing against that? And Hawley's worship practices do not work for everyone. That is also a fact.

[Savor Dam]

Linna, there is far less distance between what we are each saying than you may think.

...learning the scriptures and praying (for example) are necessary in the life of anyone who would worship the God who made the world.

I agree that study of illuminated thought on sacred matters and ego-free contemplation of ones own place in that realm is essential to serenity and direction.

Where I think we differ is on specific texts ("the scriptures"), on forms of contemplation/worship ("prayer"), and whether the focus of this is necessarily an single omnipotent personal deity to whom worship is of value...or something less well-defined. My impression from the quote above is that you do not consider inspiration sources or modes of worship other than those you follow to be as valid.

Your way is not mine. I am closer to your tradition than the paragraph above might be interpreted to mean...but we still differ considerably.

I am not questioning what you believe. It certainly works for you. With personal variations, it works for millions of people, including Dr. Hawley. All I am saying is that several hundred million others hew to diverse other paths and I am not inclined to say their way is any less right for them.

I wouldn't dream of denying anyone their path...right up to the point where someone wants to tell me that mine is not valid for me and that if I do not do it their way, I am not doing what is necessary to infuse and align myself with what is holy.

[aliantha]

I wouldn't dream of denying anyone their path...right up to the point where someone wants to tell me that mine is not valid for me and that if I do not do it their way, I am not doing what is necessary to infuse and align myself with what is holy.

[Linna Heartbooger]

I (finally) responded on the ole "thread hijacks regarding the Christian God" thread.

You need to give him reason to believe you're right if you want him to think you're right.

you mean like evidence, right?


Edit: response to Fist added.

[Fist and Faith]

I couldn't say what you would need in SD's case.

[Savor Dam]

I do not consider the discussion we've been having here to be a "thread hijack", but this is Linna's thread and I will respect her preference...and treat "Clearish" as a "1:-ish" thread.

[Linna Heartbooger]

I do not consider the discussion we've been having here to be a "thread hijack", but this is Linna's thread and I will respect her preference...and treat "Clearish" as a "1:-ish" thread.

Sort of a "0.995" on the solipsism-index?

Oh, whoops. No; I didn't mean that it was.
What I meant was that I saw myself wanting to talk about the subject so badly that I wanted to hijack my own thread. (Do other people have problems like this?)
I guess I was not being very...

I liked this:

(ali double-checks to make sure this isn't a "1" thread...)

I couldn't say what you would need in SD's case.

Makes sense. He's a different person. What do you think it is for you?

[Fist and Faith]

(Do other people have problems like this?)

Nope. You're a weirdo.

I couldn't say what you would need in SD's case.

Makes sense. He's a different person. What do you think it is for you?

There isn't anything for me. I wouldn't worship the God you believe in even if I thought it existed.

And I've heard all the arguments for God's existence already. I do not find them at all convincing. It's probably safe to say I'm not going to be convinced at at any point now.

[Vraith]

(Do other people have problems like this?)

Nope. You're a weirdo.

Yep, L. F&F is the weirdo.
peter was the smart one...started a thread that has not topic except what he thinks. So he's slain thread drift.
Until I perfect my evil skills and invade his mind.

[Linna Heartbooger]

Just noticed this... someone's being interviewed on a blog about a book he wrote, and it interests me.

It is... on the tensions between enjoying the creation and pursuing redemption

If anyone looks at it, I'm curious both about what people think of what he's saying there and how it compares to messages you tend to hear from Christian (and/or "Christian") sources on this?

Or "weird/interesting/not cool/not enough cat pictures" comments.

[Linna Heartbooger]

Just noticed this... someone's being interviewed on a blog about a book he wrote, and it interests me.

It is... on the tensions between enjoying the creation and pursuing redemption

If anyone looks at it, I'm curious both about what people think of what he's saying there and how it compares to messages you tend to hear from Christian (and/or "Christian") sources on this?

Or "weird/interesting/not cool/not enough cat pictures" comments.

[Linna Heartbooger]

Just noticed this... someone's being interviewed on a blog about a book he wrote, and it interests me.

It is... on the tensions between enjoying the creation and pursuing redemption.

If anyone looks at it, I'm curious both about what people think of what he's saying there and how it compares to messages you tend to hear from Christian (and/or "Christian") sources on this?

Or "weird/interesting/not cool/not enough cat pictures" comments.

[Linna Heartbooger]

[[[but not in a weird/stalky way. I keep the weird for the 'Tank, and the stalk for the Close.]]]
Hmm, "I keep the stalk for the Close"? Not sure if that's a pun, or what..

Well, don't look now, anybody, but there's this amazing sermon I've listened to repeatedly... at least 3-5 times... so if anyone wants to know what soundtrack I obsess over, well, it's about...
"Honor, and Glory, and Immortality - How to succeed as a glory-seeker... by giving up.